Canon's new C700

[Hans von Sonntag]

I understand that some people dig shooting Canon C-series cameras. They like the image and workflow, they're not looking for more resolution, etc. What I don't get is why those same people wouldn't just keep shooting C300Mk2 or C500. Why lay out the coin for the C700? For the extra resolution and Codex RAW you say they don't want? I assume all the bigger rental houses will put a couple on the shelf, and some Canon fans will buy them happily - but will that be enough units to cover NRE/Marketing/etc...???

I still maintain that for the C700 to be a sales success it needs an owner-operator friendly price tag. IMO, in 2016, that price point is under $15K including VF and a couple of media cards.

Cheers - #19

I don't think that the new C700 will be a big success in unit numbers sold. But it's a acclamation mark from Canon in the TV, TVC and Cinema market: we are there and we care about you, the PL guys, the old school DoPs. It's an Alexa me-too product and that's important in terms of acceptance. They don't want to lose this market completely to Arri and Red and a bit of Sony, with Arri being the big dominator.

The owner-operator market may be big in the US but in Europe, when we talk about productions that can afford a top notch camera system, its 98% rental. But to be fair, its over here a 90% Arri business. My favorite rental houses bought in January a Weapon. They rented it out 5 times in the the last half year. Its all about Alexa, Alexa, Alexa and then, of course, glass - and Alexa.

---

Canon as a company has a hard time. They completed oversaw the competition that emerged from mobiles phones and found no real answer when sales went down. It's hard for them to get in touch with the young generation. They feel old fro them, a dinosaur from a gone-by era. My kids know Apple and Samsung but Canon doesn't mean anything to them - Canon who? Personally I think that in future Canon will lose even more markte shares to Apple, Samsung etc... Their future is probably more the prosumer and professional. The C 700 is now the flag ship in the film/video market with a heavy price tag that underlines the demand they impose on them selfs.

Hans

 

[Ben Scott]

6 months and the price will drop to $20,000. Which makes it a lot more interesting.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

6 months and the price will drop to $20,000. Which makes it a lot more interesting.

Still not even so. The Scarlet W smokes the C700 for much less...

 

[Ben Scott]

How do you know that when you've not tested and seen images from the C700?

And a proper ready to shot SW package in the UK is not going to be much cheaper, if at all.

I think the single worst thing about it is that the raw recording isn't internal and requires an add-on.

For smaller scale docs the audio side of it looks promising.


To me it looks much more like it belongs in the Amira marketspace than any particular one currently occupied by Red.

 

[Ugo Del]

Red users always feel so insecure ^^
I sold my Red, cancelled my upgrade to buy the Varicam LT everybody was laughing about here when it was announced. Never been happier, by far. It's not about buying the least expensive camera with the craziest specs, it's about getting the camera you're comfortable with and love to shoot. If you have a Red and love the image don't bother about the others, no need to bash.

 

[Ben Scott]

On the outside the Canon does seem a bit pricey and I think where they have repeatedly dropped the ball in the last 4 years or so is by not having a killer feature for each cam they've released.


Red always has resolution and high speed and redcode

Arri always has brand loyalty and fantastic out of the box colour science and a workflow just about anyone can work with

The FS7 had 4k 60p internal and 180fps 1080p internal at a S35 frame size plus ND in a small form factor for a relatively tiny price at the time

Since the C300 the Canons have just been a bit underwhelming with no 'killer' features that make them indispensable. Add to that they are always price at the high end of their respective tiers and you have to wonder about the thought processes. People switched to C100s and C300s because they knew shooting on 5Dmk2s and it was all very similar. But that was a long time ago and I don't think people have particularly strong feelings about only wanting to shoot Canon or similar any more.

I see plenty of great uses for the C700, but none where I can't think of another camera that would do just as good a job.

Maybe the killer feature is the AF, but that's something I would turn off on day 1.

 

[Vadim Bobkovsky]

Red users always feel so insecure ^^
I sold my Red, cancelled my upgrade to buy the Varicam LT everybody was laughing about here when it was announced. Never been happier, by far. It's not about buying the least expensive camera with the craziest specs, it's about getting the camera you're comfortable with and love to shoot. If you have a Red and love the image don't bother about the others, no need to bash.

Internet forums are for bashing, not constructive discussion.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Red users always feel so insecure ^^
I sold my Red, cancelled my upgrade to buy the Varicam LT everybody was laughing about here when it was announced. Never been happier, by far. It's not about buying the least expensive camera with the craziest specs, it's about getting the camera you're comfortable with and love to shoot. If you have a Red and love the image don't bother about the others, no need to bash.

There's a difference between bashing and being professionally critical of new technology. Most of the time it's the ones critical of the criticism who can't spot the difference.

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

I'm curious to test it. I like to test everything. If for nothing more that to try to learn more than one can gleen from the world wide web of experts

Price will drop FAST - it's priced to high. Big mistake for them IMO.

They should have priced EQUAL to the Varicam LT.

Anyway, I am curious to see how the color and DR stacks up against Helium, especially when new RED color science hits the street. Canon is not exactly bad with respect to color.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

There's a difference between bashing and being professionally critical of new technology. Most of the time it's the ones critical of the criticism who can't spot the difference.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

There's a difference between bashing and being professionally critical of new technology. Most of the time it's the ones critical of the criticism who can't spot the difference.

Yes, like the "it's not what I would like so it must suck/it missed the specs/it will fail/" rhetoric, present everywhere online whenever a new product is announced.

Meanwhile the priciest, lowest resolution and among the heaviest camera gets chosen for Oscar winning films, used by the poor suckers who don't know any better.

 

[Jose Mojica]

I'm curious about something they said...One of the videos said something like, "...and the new RAW let's you change the ISO and Color Temperature. They're no longer baked in..." I'm not sure if I misheard that or not, but I always thought that that was a requirement for RAW. Does the RAW from the C300 MK II have the ISO and Color Temperature baked in? How is it RAW then?

Also, have they said how much it weighs?

 

[Ugo Del]

There's a difference between bashing and being professionally critical of new technology. Most of the time it's the ones critical of the criticism who can't spot the difference.

Professional would mean unbiased. Did I ever read something unbiased here?

 

[Ben Scott]

I'm curious about something they said...One of the videos said something like, "...and the new RAW let's you change the ISO and Color Temperature. They're no longer baked in..." I'm not sure if I misheard that or not, but I always thought that that was a requirement for RAW. Does the RAW from the C300 MK II have the ISO and Color Temperature baked in? How is it RAW then?

Also, have they said how much it weighs?

Every company has their own interpretation of raw and there is no standard for it.

 

[Hugues Dagallier]

There's a difference between bashing and being professionally critical of new technology. Most of the time it's the ones critical of the criticism who can't spot the difference.

Saying "The Scarlet W smokes the C700 for much less..." is being professionally critical ? I don't think so.

Did he test DR, ISO performance or even color science, global IQ ?

Did I mention Dual Pixel AF ? You should read that : http://www.gboyle.co.uk/cinematography/?p=210

This stuff is the future.

RED cameras are awesome, but the habit of bashing on this forum gives a very bad reputation to the users here.

 

[Visar Sulejmani]

Here's the entire Demo Video.

The footage looks amazing and the colors are distinctly Canon, which is a good thing.

Sure would love to give it a spin at some point.

 

[Ben Scott]

Saw that - like the sunset shot at the end especially.

Read the accompanying article saying the grade is very much in the style of Japanese TV drama which I can't comment on, although it was possibly a touch 'vibrant' for my tastes. Looks like the camera did all the important things right though.

 

[Derek Carlson]

Different strokes for different folks. I've personally always loved Canons color science, but I do think C700 is about 4 years late to the party, and coming in $10k overpriced.

 

[Bill Stengel]

Here's the entire Demo Video.

The footage looks amazing and the colors are distinctly Canon, which is a good thing.

Sure would love to give it a spin at some point.

While it does look good overall, a few things jumped out at me (viewed at 4k), which are more lens related:
The shape of the highlight bokeh coming off the wind chime at :16 – ugh.
Fringing on the highlight on the piece of bamboo near the center of the frame at :35.
Fringing around the OOF leaves at the center of the frame as the camera cranes down at 1:57.

Are these intrinsic of the Canon zoom that I'm assuming they used throughout the piece as seen in the BTS?
Any thoughts?

 

[NOSA OBAYIUWANA]

Really struggle to see the difference now between any of the top end cameras.... is there any one else out there who thinks we have reached the point of diminishing returns.