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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Can orignal REDROCKET Not Transcode Dragon Files? OHHH NOOOOO

Seriously, the RR cannot be used with Dragon footage.? a firmware update should be priority for this? My Dragon is expected back anytime now and i have a line of projects waiting for it, but looks like i'll have to push the Alexa at them if there isn't a ready solution. Banging another £5000.00 GBP on another card doesn't appeal, it's almost the price of the upgrade again.
 
I imagine the Rocket-X has the same poor decoding as the original Rocket, described here:

CPU vs GPU vs Rocket vs RocketX Quality

Since several people on here now have a Rocket-X, and nobody will post a 1 frame uncompressed comparison of cpu/gpu vs rocket-x, it probably has the same ugly artificial sharpening as the original.

I'm sure its faster, but if the quality is still bad, who is going to to pay $6750 for something you can't use to render your final output with.

You can currently use (2) of the original rockets to play full frame epic 5k footage, dragon 6k is still within the bandwidth limits of those 2 original cards - its lame for Red not to support it.

Will Keir said:
Kinda defeats the Jim "Obsolescence Obsolete" mind frame.
Click to expand...

and not even offer a purchase discount for original rocket owners like they do with dragon upgrades. Specially since most of us have paid 2 or 3x the original rocket costs for "repairs" when they suddenly die.


Equally lame that cpu red decoding is still single threaded - dng, phantom, arri, sony, cineform are all multithreaded, while red decode is limited to using a single core - 1980s style.
 
When stated that the original redrocket card is not compatible with dragon files does that mean that all footage from dragon will not be processed or only the highest resolutions?

I am mostly interested in 4k dragon for the near future..
 
What? NO red firmware is ever final. The RRX is available for sale and for rent, it would be nice to know if the Rocket-X has the same problems as the original Rocket before spending almost double the cost on one.

For productions considering using Dragons, would be good to know if the only thing the rocket-x is good for is dailies and if we are still forced to disable it for final renders and vfx handoffs. Very significant time and cpu considerations.

Bob Gundu said:
The RRX firmware still isn't final so there's no point testing it yet.
Click to expand...
 
I totally understand the sadness and would probably join if i had a ROCKET, but i think from RED's perspective it's understandable.

Let's face it, the original ROCKET is a old design, probably not versatile like a modern GPU, not that easy to (re-)program. It's a chip-design and badass asm-software specially made for the version of REDRAW that is used in M and MX-cameras.

I suspect that RED has updated the codec, they had the chance to do that when they decided to make a new camera-chipset. They took that chance and thats great. I don't think Dragon's REDRAW files do just have more pixels and bitdepth. There might be other optimizations that make those files incompatible to the ROCKET.

So Jarred has stated, that Dragon for ROCKET has no high priority (and that its not sure if it will ever be done), because the performance wouldn't be satisfying. It would need manpower and money to do that, and RED would probably do it, but there is a new player now, that makes that path inefficient. Gaming-GPUs and CUDA/OpenCL finally became good and fast enough to handle this task. You can grab a gaming-card for low budget that can easily beat the ROCKET.

RED sacrificed a good portion of their own sales by giving us GPU acceleration (FOR FREE!), they probably made the original ROCKET obsolete with that, but it makes a lot of sense and is very customer-friendly.

A few more thoughts...
Asking for Dragon-REDRAW-support on ROCKET might be similar to asking for DX11.2-support on a 5year-old graphics-card or wondering why PS4-games don't run on a PS3. A bit over-exaggerated, of course, but you get what i mean.
 
Christopher*Seguine said:
What? NO red firmware is ever final. The RRX is available for sale and for rent, it would be nice to know if the Rocket-X has the same problems as the original Rocket before spending almost double the cost on one.

For productions considering using Dragons, would be good to know if the only thing the rocket-x is good for is dailies and if we are still forced to disable it for final renders and vfx handoffs. Very significant time and cpu considerations.
Click to expand...

I can't say anything about the quality of the transcodes except for what Graeme has mentioned which was the software and hardware decodes are virtually the same quality. Which RR-1 clearly was not. As for performance of the new RRX, it will dramatically improve soon.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...4K-ecosystem&p=1312297&viewfull=1#post1312297
 
Understood. I think red should declare the v1RR a non-starter with Dragon and counter the heat that'll follow with best-in-class GPU support. That means ASAP. (Not Red ASAP, but real ASAP). It is really important to clarify, rather than muddle the post workflow.
 
Based on what little we know so far, there's a good chance the RR-X will have enough processing power to do as smooth a decode as you can in software/CPU. If a fully enabled RR-X cannot pump out imagery indistinguishable from the software version then its a much weaker value proposition for sure.

The original Rocket is simply not worth supporting if doing so demands significant resources. As I noted previously, if getting the original RR to work with Dragon was relatively simple - RED would have done it by now. I would much rather see them push forward with multi-GPU enabled decodes and getting the purpose built RR-X up to full speed. As more and more nMPs get delivered to RedUsers and a few things get optimized I'm very curious to see what kind of performance is possible without an accelerator card at all.

Cheers - #19
 
Ok,

reading through this thread I'm starting to understand it better and see it all more clearly. Thanks for all the input.

Battistella
 
Question...
I got one of those M-Logic TB rocket enclosures... as seen here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?94402-M-Logic-RED-Rocket-enclosure-JUST-WORKS

Now if the old rocket will not kick with dragon footage I'm thinking that I could stick a normal graphics card in there instead of the old rocket. By doing so I could still use my little macbook air and get enough render speeds to do transcodes efficiently. I'm not talking about 6k realtime or such, as all I need is low debayering proress proxies and I do not care if it takes like 2x realtime or so to render.

Would the above work, what would be the most bang for buck graphics card to use?

I'm thinking of sticking a Geforce 760 in there as that card renders fairly quickly at least on our old Macbook pro's. But I have not really checked if it would fit in the M-logic case.

Does any one here have experience from render GPU in TB enclosure?

I'm not buying a rocketX anytime soon and if I did I would not like to stick it in my DIT/Traveling kit and building something around the new macpro's with separate keyboard, screen etc. is just not what I want to do.

Side note... I wish RED made a TB card reader with built in GPU power something that was built like a tank or atleast as solid as the current card readers.
 
Bjorn,

this should work but I have not tested it. It's a good plan. The key to getting the fast renders for dailies is ti do about 1/4 res. with the new GPU enabled RCX, it should recognize the card and use it to render. Actually it should see both your laptop GPU and the one in the box. This needs to be tested. Maybe you have any old card sitting around just to see if the card is recognized.

You our might even be able to run dual GPU with the computer, should be plenty fast for dailies. Resolve might even render the dailies faster this way. All worth testing.

I'd love to see a thunderbolt mag reader/GPU/flash memory box that connects via TB cable and goes between all your macs.

battistella
 
Anyone know if you need drivers for RRX, Premiere Pro, Resolve in Mavericks for OpenCL?

You do for CUDA.
 
Bob Gundu said:
I can only speak for the nMP 8-Core, and say that for MX-5K footage, I don't need my v1RR card anymore.
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear more about this, Bob, since I have one on order. Are you saying you don't need to render footage anymore, or that your render times are fast enough?

Can you elaborate? I would love to fly without the card....
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
I'd love to hear more about this, Bob, since I have one on order. Are you saying you don't need to render footage anymore, or that your render times are fast enough?

Can you elaborate? I would love to fly without the card....
Click to expand...

Well both. Without the card in FCPX I can edit and scrub 6K Dragon footage fine. In RedcineX transcoding Dragon footage numbers can be found here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-cut-On-FCPX&p=1315156&viewfull=1#post1315156

Transcoding 5K MX footage on my new MacPro is the same with using the RR card in an external thunderbolt enclosure.
 
Ido Karilla said:
When stated that the original redrocket card is not compatible with dragon files does that mean that all footage from dragon will not be processed or only the highest resolutions?

I am mostly interested in 4k dragon for the near future..
Click to expand...

Ido,

No Dragon will be processed with an original RR. RCX has a window that says something like "Red Rocket doesn't support Dragon Footage". I had to disconnect my RR to get the footage to transcode with my GPU.
 
Bob Gundu said:
Well both. Without the card in FCPX I can edit and scrub 6K Dragon footage fine. In RedcineX transcoding Dragon footage numbers can be found here:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...-cut-On-FCPX&p=1315156&viewfull=1#post1315156

Transcoding 5K MX footage on my new MacPro is the same with using the RR card in an external thunderbolt enclosure.
Click to expand...

bob,

have ver you run this through with a more real world thing, like a bigger old project shot on EPIC with a lot of layers, etc. scrubbing, and getting into real production is quite different. Need a bit more detail on how much buffer under run their might be and disk access on a half full or nearly full raid accessing r3ds etc, before saying its fine.

I suspect it it would be fine in 4k or 5k, but dragon? Can you really tell yet?

Battistella
 
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