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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Burst" mode possible?

"Burst" mode possible?

  • Total voters
    98
yeah the fs700 left a slight bitter taste in my mouth after spending so much on scarlet, it will be kinda disheartening to have to rent a £6000 camera to supplement an amazing cinema camera I sold hard to a production. 10 second burst mode at low compression rate would answer that, and enable me to shoot music videos, spots etc without a second thought. I love RAW i Love 4k, but i really dont want to imagine my scarlet falling behind a curve so soon, on something so clearly achievable, when it has a far superior spec. its so within REDs reach..

i just hope obsolescence obsolete extends to this dilemma in the future.
 
I don't think Scarlet has anything to worry about. Aliased, high compression, low DR, low bit rate pictures only get uglier the more you slow them down (and subsequently the longer you are looking at them.).

Slow-mo is the shallow DOF of 1012, and it will disappear just as quickly. When it all shakes out Scarlet will still be standing. Don't fret.
 
Wow, the first three pages of this thread are BS. Scott, you clearly did not understand.

Tim, based on the original Scarlet specs, I'd say it is technically/technologically doable... The fixed Scarlet was 120fps with a 150fps burst mode. So RED know how to implement such tech OR they know why they can not implement such a mode (as they presumably tried and failed). I doubt you'd be able to double the FPS (e.g. 5seconds of 120fps at 2k), but healthy 25% seems plausible (e.g. 75fps at 2k). With that in mind, it hardly seems worth it for Scarlet... However for Epic, 25%+ of 300fps/2k is 375fps... a pretty big bump. You may start running into sensor read speed and REDmag write speed issues at those fps, but RED would know better than I would (and that's precisely why it would be a "burst" mode).

As for the FS700, it does high frame rates differently -- by lowering the sampled res of it's 4k sensor... And then eventually cropping as well (like at 960fps). The only reason it's time limited is because it's recording format (SD card) can NOT write that fast, so it can only record until its internal memory is full, at which point it "pastes" the info to the SD card after it's stopped recording (check out PhilipBloom's two part look, he explains it.) That said, ideally, when its 4kRAW recording is introduced, it should be able capture at those high frame rates for extended periods of time (assuming that its 4kRAW recorder uses faster media for capture.) And, yes, depending on how expensive the external FS700 4kRAW recorders are, it could completely blow the Scarlet out of the water in the price department... It's shootable out of the box, with batteries that last all day, XLR input, built-in NDs, etc. for $8k... if the 4kRAW recorder is $3-4k it'd still be much cheaper than Scarlet and can do much more.

Alas, if you bought a Scarlet, I'm assuming you bought it to use in the meantime... as in, you've been making money with it in the months between the Scarlet launch and the FS700+4kRAWmodule launch (which hasn't happened yet)... If that's the case (and it should be), then you should've more than made up the cost difference.
 
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Scott Crawley said:
I suppose that is what you are wishing for?
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ha!.. scott it was painful reading all your initial posts to get up to thread speed, this should have been your first post

.. of course thats what he means, will it be possible to record a higher frame rate at a higher resolution for a short burst duration, possibly leveraging any potential internal ram that can be used as a media recording/encoding buffer..

..i personally doubt it, but possible quality adjustments to encoding might yield something in the future, in terms of framerate or maybe a new 2k mode, or maybe a better 1080p fps yield is the way to go..


..another idea might be for Red to create a seperate adapted build especially for slow-mo, that maybe has less overlay functionality but maybe allows some higher resolution higher framerate options
 
Scott Crawley said:
Apparently 1k WS is the largest frame Scarlet can process @120 FPS. It is also somewhat apparent that 1080 is verboten @Red. :-)
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Scott, some of that has to do with duration as well, not just how long it can record. I'm sure your familiar with high-speed systems as they work in a similar manner and have a limited amount of time they can record (well atleast some do) based on the internal memory be it, 12GB, 16GB etc, before it's written to another form of media, which usually takes the amount of time to play the file back to write to the media. With a burst mode you can essentially use the maximum amount of time, memory and power for a shorter period of time to achieve frame rates, similar to say an FS700.

When you look at the Epic, each frame rate is a continuous record with no breaking or bursts.

If you dig around looking at the amount of data it takes to record 4K 30fps people have made comparisons at varying Red Codes and so on that actually show the Scarlet might be capable of more. Whether thats true I have no idea.

I love RED but I personally think the Scarlet is more capable than advertised. Think about it from a marketing selling stand point. You buy a great 4K camera that is cinema ready at 4K 30fps, and 5K 12fps for about 10K for the body. On top of that you have HDRx, which the R1 does not. So that already takes more processing power and data up from my understanding(and I could be wrong on this I thought I read it in a thread, and will link it if I find it) than a R1 would recording normally.

Then as new products come out knowing the camera might be capable of more RED can release things such things as simple as 1K 120fps to keep you on board. Not that you should with the 4K raw and what not. Just saying RED puts themselves ahead by simply making a camera more powerful than you realize and than looks like a champ with every new free firmware release (and they are), but its a great way to keep you with there gear, which you should stay with already but its genius in the sense that they can essentially release things at there will when new products/features come out on other cameras without you having to buy another camera body. I could be entirely wrong its just something I'd think about and do.

Just a thought. But I think a burst mode would be fantastic, personally I think the Epic is the way to go for higher frame rates as I even looked at getting Miro, but if you can't get an Epic, its not insane to think that getting a burst mode on the Scarlet isn't a reality, considering the price, and the processing power it already has on board, not to mention with the RED you have to deal with a pretty heavy crop at 2K, where you wouldn't on the Sony.
 
+ 1 on a burst mode. i get the OP. Would be nice. I hope RED has considered this if not seriously working on implementing it.
 
+1 on adding a FPS burst mode. Not that I'd EVER use it, but it's one more feature I can add to the "My RED is better than your 7D because..." list. :)
 
High frame rates is the missing cherry on top of Scarlet for me. It's such an awesome story telling device. I would love a burst mode feature.

Though my instincts tell me Scarlet won't see this until Dragon - if then.
 
What the FS700 does in burst mode is write data to a local RAM module, and stores it onto a CF card/SSD afterwards.
Uncompressed video doesn't require lots of CPU, just lots of bandwith.
 
Josef Gatti said:
High frame rates is the missing cherry on top of Scarlet for me. It's such an awesome story telling device. I would love a burst mode feature.

Though my instincts tell me Scarlet won't see this until Dragon - if then.
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Agree with all that. I see the FS700 as already mentioned multiple times as the Scarlets closest competition and a burst mode would help ensure it's pride of place.
But more importantly, it's a very useful creative tool. RED appreciates this better than anyone I believe/ Jim only recently stated RED thinks having high FPS is important, so i'm still holding hope and it's a hope that with any other camera system I wold never even be considering. Which is very cool.

Anyhow, great feature idea Tim. And if Scott pops back in... just distract him by mentioning the secret word...

*whispers* Prometheus. But you didn't get it from me...

:leaving:
 
The burst mode that we want is already optimized for continuous speeds. Great news, right? :)

Remember guys that the Scarlet we have today is a result of tests to get an EPIC. Some things were lost, some were gained when the FixedScarlet was replaced with a slightly less powerful EPIC. The fixed scarlet was surprisingly awesome with some unadvertised specs and it's unfortunate that it fell through the cracks. The Scarlet we have today also has some surprisingly powerful options and specs at quite an unheard of low price tag.

With this much being said, let's not forget what the competition is offering and how crazy it is that RED is still going us options at a price point which no one else can meet.

Sounds like some people need the EPIC instead of a Scarlet. ;)

From the words of Jim... "Framerates cost."
 
Alexander Thomson said:
+1 on adding a FPS burst mode. Not that I'd EVER use it, but it's one more feature I can add to the "My RED is better than your 7D because..." list. :)
Click to expand...

Is a list even neccessary? Ha! Just couple of things are enough. RAW, 16-bit color over 8-bit, current framerate options, lens options, dynamic range.
 
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