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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Burst" mode possible?

"Burst" mode possible?

  • Total voters
    98
Timothy Carr said:
Well maybe, but the data rate could be lowered to fix that.
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Possibly, but then we wouldn't be talking about Red RAW any more, at least not so far as I'm concerned.

You made the comparison to the Sony FS700 but what are you comparing exactly? When recording 120fps or 960 fps, what frame sizes does the FS700 actually deliver? What is the bit depth, the color depth? Are you saying that you would be happy with 120 fps on Scarlet at 8-bit?

Red set the quality bar at 16 bit 4:4:4 and I love that. 8-bit is sub par for a professional tool in my opinion and I don't want to see it cluttering my menus, but my real concern is not the clutter. I know that if the option exists to jump down to 8-bit or lower color depth etcetera then someone is going to insist that I use it and frankly I don't want to give up that quality, particularly for a shot that is bound to be an attention getter. It is not a conversation that I even want to have so it is better for me if it is not an option.

If 120 fps is required I am happy to rent Epic, but that's just me and my personal preference.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Possibly, but then we wouldn't be talking about Red RAW any more, at least not so far as I'm concerned.

You made the comparison to the Sony FS700 but what are you comparing exactly? When recording 120fps or 960 fps, what frame sizes does the FS700 actually deliver? What is the bit depth, the color depth? Are you saying that you would be happy with 120 fps on Scarlet at 8-bit?

Red set the quality bar at 16 bit 4:4:4 and I love that. 8-bit is sub par for a professional tool in my opinion and I don't want to see it cluttering my menus, but my real concern is not the clutter. I know that if the option exists to jump down to 8-bit or lower color depth etcetera then someone is going to insist that I use it and frankly I don't want to give up that quality, particularly for a shot that is bound to be an attention getter. It is not a conversation that I even want to have so it is better for me if it is not an option.

If 120 fps is required I am happy to rent Epic, but that's just me and my personal preference.
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So what your saying is that, dont implement a feature because someone might use it? If you dont want to sacrifice quality, that you choice. What if the project didnt need that? what if you were outputting to web? True about the epic, but what if we didnt have the budget?
 
Timothy Carr said:
So what your saying is that, dont implement a feature because someone might use it? If you dont want to sacrifice quality, that you choice. What if the project didnt need that? what if you were outputting to web? True about the epic, but what if we didnt have the budget?
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You have to choose a camera that suits the needs of the project and the budget. If a Red doesn't fit that bill then it is entirely appropriate to choose something else.
 
Timothy Carr said:
No, because if i have a camera, why can i use it?
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You can use your camera to do exactly what was stated in the specs. More things may come in future firmware releases, but right now RED have made good on what they said on Nov 3rd. You may have made a mistake purchasing a camera in the hope it'll do more than what RED have said.

If you need something outside the specs of the Scarlet, you can rent an Epic / Sony etc
 
I just meant if you have a specific need for lower quality slow-motion, then the scarlet is not the right kind of camera for that. The scarlet is a very specific piece of equipment that gives you fantastic quality at regular speed for a (somewhat) decent price.

If you want to go completely the other way from that, then RED would have to do a lot of compromises : 2K only (that also causes problems, using only part of the sensor), with a much stronger compression.
I'm not sure they would be ready to stand by the footage it will produce.

But maybe with the Dragon sensor upgrade, you will have more options.
 
Scott Crawley said:
No, I am saying don't implement a feature if it means you have to sacrifice quality.
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But if you have a choice of them.
Thats sort of like going "Well the scarlet shoots 4k, so i dont want the ability to shoot 2k because its lower quality"
 
Timothy Carr said:
But if you have a choice of them.
Thats sort of like going "Well the scarlet shoots 4k, so i dont want the ability to shoot 2k because its lower quality"
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"Sort of" but not quite. It all depends upon the particulars of the project. If we were talking about a cinema deliverable I might agree entirely, for web delivery not at all. However, I pointed to bit and color depth specifically. Right now there is a minimum standard and it is one that is relevant whether you are shooting a 1k web video or 4k cinema.
 
Scott Crawley said:
That all depends upon the particulars of the project. If we were talking about a cinema deliverable I might agree entirely, for web delivery not at all. However, I pointed to bit and color depth specifically. Right now there is a minimum standard and it is one that is relevant whether you are shooting a 1k web video or 4k cinema.
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True. But alot of people seem to want this feature. You dont want it because it gives the camera more functionality? Even if it does lower the bitrate, and records to VHS it will be useful for some people.
 
Timothy Carr said:
True. But alot of people seem to want this feature. You dont want it because it gives the camera more functionality? Even if it does lower the bitrate, and records to VHS it will be useful for some people.
Click to expand...

Yes, and VHS or DV or HDV or whatever are useful to somebody but not to me... Not in a professional cinema camera. That is ultimately my point. If you want VHS you can get an old one for less than $10.
 
Scott Crawley said:
Yes, and VHS or DV or HDV or whatever are useful to somebody but not to me... Not in a professional cinema camera. That is ultimately my point. If you want VHS you can get an old one for less than $10.
Click to expand...

look, this is getting rediculous lol. Its a nice OPTION. Nobody is forcing you to use it. Burst mode would be handy. End of story

Btw this is red were talking about here, im sure if they want burst mode, they will find a way of having all these features your say you want, without compromising to much quality.
 
Comedy GOLD!!
Cheers to whomever wrote this bit of back and forth - Laurel and Hardy would be proud!

Tim I think that a 10 second high speed burst option would be great on the Scarlet or Epic; I get what you are talking about. As for the contention that Scarlet / Epic are 'Cinema' cameras only is complete B.S.. I shoot advertising all in 4KHD on Scarlet at the moment, finishing in 1080 for broadcast or web delivery. I've used the 2K high speed option a couple of times and no-one in the production line has every said anything about quality, and the punter sitting on their couch never notices either.

There are many different types of 'Pro' filmmakers using these cameras all with differing deliverables, and though many may aspire, I doubt very few will ever deliver to the 'Big Screen'.
 
Timothy Carr said:
look, this is getting rediculous lol. Its a nice OPTION. Nobody is forcing you to use it. Burst mode would be handy. End of story

Btw this is red were talking about here, im sure if they want burst mode, they will find a way of having all these features your say you want, without compromising to much quality.
Click to expand...

"Look" I don't like your tone."End of story"

I'd like to summarize by clearing up a few points:
Nobody said anything about forcing someone to use anything. That includes you, using a cinema camera for a web video.
This is a feature that YOU said that YOU want, not me.
You think it is easy. I suggested it wasn't.
I agree, it might be nice if it can be done without compromising quality. Maybe they can. Maybe they will. Posts on this forum can go all the way to the top. Maybe Jim read your request himself.
This became really silly when you brought VHS into it. I'm all for silly. Hell I even do argumentative, but I think you beat me on both counts. I surrender.

Glen Powell said:
Comedy GOLD!!
Cheers to whomever wrote this bit of back and forth - Laurel and Hardy would be proud!
... As for the contention that Scarlet / Epic are 'Cinema' cameras only is complete B.S..
Click to expand...

Yes it was cheeky and a little funny, but who said they are "Cinema only"?
 
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Scott Crawley said:
"Look" I don't like your tone."End of story"

I'd like to summarize by clearing up a few points:
Nobody said anything about forcing someone to use anything. That includes you, using a cinema camera for a web video.
This is a feature that YOU said that YOU want, not me.
You think it is easy. I suggested it wasn't.
I agree, it might be nice if it can be done without compromising quality. Maybe they can. Maybe they will. Posts on this forum can go all the way to the top. Maybe Jim read your request himself.
This became really silly when you brought VHS into it. I'm all for silly. Hell I even do argumentative, but I think you beat me on both counts. I surrender.
Click to expand...

haha ok. I didn't have a tone, but is early morning and im typing on a phone. You didn't take me seriously with the whole VHS thing did you? I meant it would be nice if it was an option no matter what the quality is like.
 
Glen Powell said:
Comedy GOLD!!
Cheers to whomever wrote this bit of back and forth - Laurel and Hardy would be proud!

Tim I think that a 10 second high speed burst option would be great on the Scarlet or Epic; I get what you are talking about. As for the contention that Scarlet / Epic are 'Cinema' cameras only is complete B.S.. I shoot advertising all in 4KHD on Scarlet at the moment, finishing in 1080 for broadcast or web delivery. I've used the 2K high speed option a couple of times and no-one in the production line has every said anything about quality, and the punter sitting on their couch never notices either.

There are many different types of 'Pro' filmmakers using these cameras all with differing deliverables, and though many may aspire, I doubt very few will ever deliver to the 'Big Screen'.
Click to expand...
Exactly! You can't say all filmmakers are the same and that the camera is going to be used the same way by everyone.
 
+1 on the burst mode being a good idea... even less than ten seconds... with preroll, even a two second crazy high fps burst mode could have uses... tight shots of punches landing, muzzle flashes etc... how big is the cache on RED cameras, and how fast would the pipeline choke? If you need REAL high speed, rent a Phantom. But (say) 500FPS @ 5K for a 2 or 3 second burst on EPIC could have its uses... it's on my 'nice to have' list.

Anyone from RDC chime in? Is burst mode something you've experimented with and considered implementing? Any insuperable barriers to it in the architecture? I would understand if you saw it as something possibly do-able but not in sufficient demand to make it worth a major investment in R&D...

Mike
 
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