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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

"Burst" mode possible?

"Burst" mode possible?

  • Total voters
    98
If Scarlet could 'do' 120fps at 2k AT ALL it wouldn't be a Scarlet - it would be an Epic.

Whereas I imagine in the Sony the burst size is more to do with the amount of onboard RAM, with the Scarlet it's more to do with data rate capability of the camera, as mentioned above.

Actually putting that much information through to ANY memory is difficult, and since the RedMags can handle 120fps at 5k, it looks like memory speed is not the issue - so basically (in my opinion) there is probably no possibility of a burst mode.
 
Scott Crawley said:
It's a function of resolution (or frame size), compression scheme or codec and processing power. My understanding is that 2k RAW is substantially more data than other codecs @1080, so the processing and throughput requirements are higher... Apparently too high for Scarlet components.
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well this red, so anything is possible ;)
 
Peer Landa said:
Well, I'm with you too. Frankly, I wonder why some here seem to have problem understanding your request/suggestion for a burst mode feature...?

-- peer
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I think largely its the OPs first post that set this thread to derail. There's an expectation from the hardware that hasn't been backed up by anything Red have said, indeed numerous times its been stated that people shouldn't expect Epic features on the Scarlet - not because they're trying to 'protect' the Epic market, but simply because the hardware isn't up to that level of performance.

Burst mode on Scarlet? sure why not - also add in 24p@5k etc etc... all great to suggest, or ask about.
But saying "I mean the hardware surly can handle it, right?" takes the conversation down a different route outside the original specs of the Scarlet-X.

Maybe its the phrasing of the original post, but to me it reads like someone who wants the Scarlet to suddenly get what Sonys latest effort has.
 
Gary Paul Walker said:
I think largely its the OPs first post that set this thread to derail. There's an expectation from the hardware that hasn't been backed up by anything Red have said, indeed numerous times its been stated that people shouldn't expect Epic features on the Scarlet - not because they're trying to 'protect' the Epic market, but simply because the hardware isn't up to that level of performance.

Burst mode on Scarlet? sure why not - also add in 24p@5k etc etc... all great to suggest, or ask about.
But saying "I mean the hardware surly can handle it, right?" takes the conversation down a different route outside the original specs of the Scarlet-X.

Maybe its the phrasing of the original post, but to me it reads like someone who wants the Scarlet to suddenly get what Sonys latest effort has.
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The hardware could handle it, i really didnt want to say this because everyone will rise up again, but *cough cough* overclocking *cough cough*....
 
Timothy Carr said:
The hardware could handle it, i really didnt want to say this because everyone will rise up again, but *cough cough* overclocking *cough cough*....
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I understand your point - but 'overclocking' means to push the hardware beyond its safe operating limits. By definition the harware can't handle it, otherwise it wouldnt be overclocking, would it?
Maybe Red figure this out, maybe they dont. I've not heard them mention a burst mode, or even a comment on someone elses post about it, and they certainly didnt post it in the specs.
I think Red are savvy enough to take the hardware and push it to its very best, and if that at some point includes a burst mode, then bravo to them (and hooray for us). But I wouldnt expect it, and I certainly wouldnt look at the FS700 with envious eyes (because if you've seen the FS700 slo-mo footage up close, you'll be chuckling yourself back to 4K)
 
I agree with Gary.

Only RED knows the differences between the Epic and it's baby brother Scarlet. But there is a substantial price difference between the two.

Jim said when Scarlet was launched that it featured internals that did not hit the required specs for Epics, but could comfortably handle the data rates needed for the Scarlet specs.

It's great to ponder and speculate, but a slow motion burst mode might not be possible. Many users have been wanting pre-record for a while and that's not with us yet - so there might be some fundamental changes in the way the Epic/Scarlet is designed vs the old RED.

As always in business, it's about a ROI - I think someone else mentioned this in the thread. If Sony's offering has the features that are essential to you in making money, get one of those - or, if the Scarlet gives you what's needed, that's your purchase. Similarly, if the Epic gives you all things - get that. Just look at your business model.
 
Andy White said:
I agree with Gary.

Only RED knows the differences between the Epic and it's baby brother Scarlet. But there is a substantial price difference between the two.

Jim said when Scarlet was launched that it featured internals that did not hit the required specs for Epics, but could comfortably handle the data rates needed for the Scarlet specs.

It's great to ponder and speculate, but a slow motion burst mode might not be possible. Many users have been wanting pre-record for a while and that's not with us yet - so there might be some fundamental changes in the way the Epic/Scarlet is designed vs the old RED.

As always in business, it's about a ROI - I think someone else mentioned this in the thread. If Sony's offering has the features that are essential to you in making money, get one of those - or, if the Scarlet gives you what's needed, that's your purchase. Similarly, if the Epic gives you all things - get that. Just look at your business model.
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Who knows. It might be possible. Lets just hope....
 
Ben Roper said:
If Scarlet could 'do' 120fps at 2k AT ALL it wouldn't be a Scarlet - it would be an Epic.

Whereas I imagine in the Sony the burst size is more to do with the amount of onboard RAM, with the Scarlet it's more to do with data rate capability of the camera, as mentioned above.

Actually putting that much information through to ANY memory is difficult, and since the RedMags can handle 120fps at 5k, it looks like memory speed is not the issue - so basically (in my opinion) there is probably no possibility of a burst mode.
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No it wouldn't. The epic does 300 at 2k.... And if it's a burst it doesn't even touch the r1.
 
i would love a burst mode...i cannot understand why people are so against this idea...do not be so pessimistic! we should not dash hope :P keep on feeding RED with crazy ideas. Thats what make them different thinking... for those who cannot read all theses threads. go out shooting :DDD
 
With respect to any and all, I think getting caught up in Tim's initial phrasing is pretty silly. With only a fraction of reading it's very clear he was only ever simply saying - hey wouldn't a burst mode be awesome. And of course he's right.

I don't believe it remotely has that whiff of self entitlement/gimme gimme that some have alluded to. Nor does it make mention of giving specs that would see it compete with Epic - which I personally think is a valid concern - but entirely unnecessary as RED would obviously never do any such. I mean come on, even when 120 1K was the promised spec for the Scarlet awaiting delivery - they still made sure Epic also and unexpectedly got an even more powerful 1K upgrade at the same time.

Which is fine with me because I think RED should ensure epic keeps it pride of place and protect those who have invested heavily and survive off rentals etc, I think that's loyalty and good business. It makes me want to be their customer and feel safe in doing so. Certainly more than some other companies. But you can still make judicious and valuable creative improvements like RED do, and I don't think having something like 96FPS in 3k for 3 seconds or some such seems too over the top or crazy. It certainly wouldn't stop me from seeing the value in buying an epic. I hope to buy several in the upcoming years. Wonderful as scarlet is, Epic is in a different class and once dragon hits, with it's lower upgrade cost to be an epic dragon owner than a scarlet one, (also with a much earlier release date) it's value will shoot up yet another considerable notch.

What I think having a burst mode in Scarlet might achieve is three things....
One - provide faster frame rates for a short period of time. Sorry just HAD to say that :)))
Two - here's the big one to me, provide a creative tool that is much easier to marry with the 4k footage we are shooting than the 2k 60p is. Really to me it's just helping ensure the creative tool that's already in there can be used effectively for the purpose of the camera... the creation of digital cinema.
Three - rightly or wrongly I also believe just as Timothy does that it would likley help more new owners choose Scarlet over the upcoming Fs700. To me these are the two cameras going into competition at the same end of the market. And as I think the Epic and it's owners are worth protecting, so too I think is the scarlet. I also would like to see RED continue to grow.

Anyhow I'm not without hope, but I don't think it will happen. Not because it would likely be impossible. But I think RED, as ever, has much bigger fish to fry.
But here's hoping. Because unlike some. I think it's respectfully not too far reaching and love that RED prides itself on listening to it's customers.
 
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Gary Paul Walker said:
I think largely its the OPs first post that set this thread to derail. There's an expectation from the hardware that hasn't been backed up by anything Red have said
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Oh how quickly we forget... So how about refreshing our memory with this NAB announcement from 2008:

"Today at NAB, Red Digital Cinema showcased the long-awaited Scarlet, a compact model capable of shooting 3K video for under $3,000. Film and video enthusiasts flooded the show floor, clawing to catch a glimpse of the Scarlet's rectangular upright body and unconventional architecture. The Scarlet is equipped with a new 2/3-inch Mysterium sensor and supports 1-120fps with a 180fps burst mode. The Scarlet can capture video up to 100Mbps in REDCODE Raw format and RGB recording to dual compact flash."

-- peer
 
You and Gary are talking about completely different cameras, so I don't see your point.

Peer Landa said:
Oh how quickly we forget... So how about refreshing our memory with this NAB announcement from 2008:

"Today at NAB, Red Digital Cinema showcased the long-awaited Scarlet, a compact model capable of shooting 3K video for under $3,000. Film and video enthusiasts flooded the show floor, clawing to catch a glimpse of the Scarlet's rectangular upright body and unconventional architecture. The Scarlet is equipped with a new 2/3-inch Mysterium sensor and supports 1-120fps with a 180fps burst mode. The Scarlet can capture video up to 100Mbps in REDCODE Raw format and RGB recording to dual compact flash."

-- peer
Click to expand...
 
Scott Crawley said:
You and Gary are talking about completely different cameras, so I don't see your point.
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I don't think red would have changed the hardware to a lower spec from that version to todays scarlet, so he is saying that if a lower end model does it, the higher end should be able to...
 
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