Budget PL Options

[Matthew J Wilson]

Thought it would be interesting to try and put together a database of budget PL lens options.

As great as some of the cine modded EF primes are, such as Leica R's/FD's. When using camera systems such as the alexa classic, converting the mount to EF isn't always desirable. As PL glass is generally really expensive and readily available to rent I thought it could be interesting to see what the options were for budget PL lens sets.
By budget I'm talking $1000-$4000.

So far I've looked into:
- Zeiss Jena MC (PL converted)
- Lomo OCT18 Standard Speeds (PL converted)
- Canon FL (PL converted)
- Sigma Cine zooms (PCHood/Cinematics)
- Iron Glass Adapters Russian Soviet Rehoused Primes
- Xeen Primes
- Red Pro Primes
- Sony Cinealta Primes

If anyone has any opinions on the above or any other options to add I'd be interested to hear.

 

[Dan Kanes]

Call me crazy...

If you’re on a tight budget - the best lenses you can get for under $1000 are either in EF mount or can be easily converted to EF (other than FD - which are challenging but possible to make EF)...

On a super high grade professional set you might not want EF lenses, but you also don’t want a clunker lens (mechanically)

The best “cheap” (as all of these can be had under $4000 if looking PL lenses I can think of are:

Tokina Vista (maybe can be found used)
Sigma Cine (often around used under $3000/ea!)
Xeen
Xeen CF (same glass, nice size/shape)
Red Pro Primes (can be had for a song these days, great if you’re looking for 35mm format not FF)

 

[Matt W.]

Xeen seems like the best option but I prefer Sigma's and Canon's focus on center sharpness over Samyang's focus on a flat field, which I feel lends itself more to astro. (Just my opinion.)

The SLR Magic APO lenses always looked extremely appealing to me but the lack of an 18mm option was deal-breaking.

Now that they've (apparently?) announced an 18mm, that seems like the best deal for the money. Had I known about that I might have not bothered with what I own now but no use looking back endlessly. Never used them but like the images from them.

I often see the Sony set compared with Ultra Primes, but I was never a fan of the clinical look in general but those are really cheap used and performance looks like the best for the money if you like the look.

I have a lot of OCT 18 and Arri Standard lenses that I've converted to EF, and those convert to PL even better and it's not too costly, I have PL adapters, too. Adapters range from $50-$400+.

But the mechanics for those older cinema lenses are not ideal for use on a larger set imo and a full rehousing would be costly compared with just getting Xeens or Sigmas. The biggest issue is most of them cover S35 at most (often just Academy) so with a Gemini or something probably better to go with converted still lenses...

I agree with Dan that anything that covers >S35 and is PL mount will either be expensive or a bit limited. Of those you've listed, all should work except maybe the Lomos...

 

[Matthew J Wilson]

Xeen seems like the best option but I prefer Sigma's and Canon's focus on center sharpness over Samyang's focus on a flat field, which I feel lends itself more to astro. (Just my opinion.)

The SLR Magic APO lenses always looked extremely appealing to me but the lack of an 18mm option was deal-breaking.

Now that they've (apparently?) announced an 18mm, that seems like the best deal for the money. Had I known about that I might have not bothered with what I own now but no use looking back endlessly. Never used them but like the images from them.

I often see the Sony set compared with Ultra Primes, but I was never a fan of the clinical look in general but those are really cheap used and performance looks like the best for the money if you like the look.

I have a lot of OCT 18 and Arri Standard lenses that I've converted to EF, and those convert to PL even better and it's not too costly, I have PL adapters, too. Adapters range from $50-$400+.

But the mechanics for those older cinema lenses are not ideal for use on a larger set imo and a full rehousing would be costly compared with just getting Xeens or Sigmas. The biggest issue is most of them cover S35 at most (often just Academy) so with a Gemini or something probably better to go with converted still lenses...

I agree with Dan that anything that covers >S35 and is PL mount will either be expensive or a bit limited. Of those you've listed, all should work except maybe the Lomos...

I have a couple Lomo's but haven't converted them to PL. Haven't heard many good things about the mechanics... but $500 for a S35 cine lens is quite desirable if you're on a budget.

 

[Matt W.]

I have a couple Lomo's but haven't converted them to PL. Haven't heard many good things about the mechanics... but $500 for a S35 cine lens is quite desirable if you're on a budget.

What camera do you have? Alexa Classic? Are you looking into PL mount lenses for the ergonomics or simply because you have a PL mount camera? Lomos and Sigma Art look a world apart. What look are you after?

If your sensor is only S35 there are lots of good affordable options in Arri standard mount with a real vintage look if that's your thing. (Imo.) However most of these lenses were designed for Academy format and offer less coverage than their PL mount successors. I'm not sure if the Alexa Classic shoots 3.2k, but if it's just 2.8k then you have a ton of options in Arri standard mount, and these are inexpensive to convert to PL. The Lomos should be good, too.

Check out these adapters to start. The OCT18 and OCT19 ones are quite good.

http://rafcamera.com

I believe Leitax sells a mount conversion for the Alexa that's good and affordable, too. No experience with it.

 

[Matthew J Wilson]

What camera do you have? Alexa Classic? Are you looking into PL mount lenses for the ergonomics or simply because you have a PL mount camera? Lomos and Sigma Art look a world apart. What look are you after?

If your sensor is only S35 there are lots of good affordable options in Arri standard mount with a real vintage look if that's your thing. (Imo.) However most of these lenses were designed for Academy format and offer less coverage than their PL mount successors. I'm not sure if the Alexa Classic shoots 3.2k, but if it's just 2.8k then you have a ton of options in Arri standard mount, and these are inexpensive to convert to PL. The Lomos should be good, too.

Check out these adapters to start. The OCT18 and OCT19 ones are quite good.

http://rafcamera.com

I believe Leitax sells a mount conversion for the Alexa that's good and affordable, too. No experience with it.

Alexa Plus 4:3.
Just weighing up options. I hire for paid work, but I want to own some lenses for some passion projects/low budget. Spec AD's/Music vids, that kind of stuff. Don't want to splash a load of money straight away. Just something to give me a bit more flexibility.

 

[Matt W.]

Alexa Plus 4:3.
Just weighing up options. I hire for paid work, but I want to own some lenses for some passion projects/low budget. Spec AD's/Music vids, that kind of stuff. Don't want to splash a load of money straight away. Just something to give me a bit more flexibility.

Nice camera!

I haven't used the Plus but I believe it uses a 23.76 x 13.365mm crop sensor. So the 2.8k area if you're shooting 16:9.

In this case you have a lot of options if you're willing to convert Arri standard mount to PL, especially if you're after a vintage look.

https://vimeo.com/275500463

https://vimeo.com/221100932

Lomos I think are knock off Cookes so that's of course a nice option, too. I own both of those sets and Lomos but haven't shot with them much yet. Heh you can tell I really wanted Speed Panchros but couldn't afford them.

These are all pretty affordable since they don't have great coverage beyond S35. The mechanics actually seem pretty good on the Zeiss and Schneider, just not necessarily suited for modern work on a larger set. Not a concern for me and sounds like not one for you either.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Don't buy into Xeen. They are crap. Look into Sony Cinealta primes instead.

Budget-wise Tokina Vista are the best in terms of IQ, but big and bulky. Never used Red Pro Primes (ok, once about 10 years ago), but I've recently bought a Red Pro Zoom 18-85 and I quite like the image. It's a tad soft in the range from 25 to 50mm, but the esthetics are somewhat similar to Arri UP.

I've recieved the Iron Glass rehoused 58mm in PL today, will go through some test during this week. I've uploaded a ton of photos and first impressions in the other thread.

Though - Iron Glass set is a matched housing set, but optically it's like having 5 different lenses - all different coatings etc. But muuuuuuuuuch more artistic look.

 

[Vance Colvig]

Sony Alta v2 are quite nice and very well built, but large and heavy. I recently purchased a Tokina 11-20 Cine PL to add to my Alta set and it matches quite well. GL optics rehouses still glass with PL mounts as does Kim Camera.

 

[Billy Jim]

Laowa has 12mm

Irix has 11mm, 45mm and 150mm

 

[Phil Holland]

We're at an interesting stage in the timeline here, but one perspective considering the sets available is to piece together a set as you see fit. I've done this for both my Sigma Cine and Tokina Cinema Vista sets particularly as new lenses are released.

Might be ideal to go for a set you really enjoy using and grabbing 3X focal lengths to start and build from there.

Not something I would normally recommend doing, but a decent way to slowly assemble a full set as you can.

 

[Ryan Purcell]

Agree with the above but also:

Rokinon - kind of junky but super cheap.

And:

Uniqoptics - like Red Pro primes but with some funky flares.

 

[Russell M Johnston]

I just picked up a set of GL Optics Sigma Zooms, 18-35 and 50-100. They are really well made and are made using that amazing Sigma Art glass. I can change out from EF to PL, which was the main reason to get them over the Sigma Cine versions.

 

[Björn Benckert]

http://www.kinefinity.com/shop/mavo_prime_lens/?lang=en

Have not tested them myself but only heard good things about them. And for the price and considering they are FF and 10K USD for a set of 5 is not bad.

 

[Billy Jim]

Meike lenses will soon be available in PL and EF mounts according to:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAcpBBIgKff/?igshid=1m3aji6g8msos

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Also NISI primes, GL Optics has some options too. Tokina PL zooms and some fixed options outside of Vista prime line. Canon FD. Used .CP2

Also Sony cinealta has a mk I set of lenses which are rare and of plastic body, but also extremely cheap and the image quality is there.

 

[Luka Sanader]

just to to give my 2 cents to this discussion; looks like we are mixing apples and peaches a bit. New VS Vintage, S35 VS VV lenses.

- Lomos i wont 2 sets and i am using them since 1994; love them but... they are nit budget option if you want to make them work. OST18 lenses are small, most of them are 2.8 and not worth hustle IMO. Nice T2.2 lenses and 1.4 are all in OST19 (BNCR) and that makes them impossible to adapt to PL. only way is to convert them to PL and that will run you around 450$ per lens. now problem is that unless you have Ekran or Kinor H35 this investment is silly as mechanically they are really bad. Even Ekran and Kinor are not that good mechanically and they are barely acceptable. Only way to have descent lens out of them is rehousing. minimum is 2k per lens at Kim Camera up to 4k... I have rehoused them in the past and IMO they are unbeatable for the price: 1000$ lens and 2000$ for rehousing in 3k you get the beautiful vintage lens that has no vintage lens problems and they will cost you less then Xeen. IMPORTANT 18 to 28 mm wont cover Helium or Gemini.

- Red Pro Primes and Unioptics are exselant and i dont understand why are they so under rated ??? i think they are far better then Xeen if you stay in the S35 range. down side is size, S35 and i would like to know how are they covering Helium and Gemini?

- Tokinas are my favorite lenses in this group but at 7000$ for 18mm and 5500$ for 50mm i could not label them as budget.

- CP2 are the option and they can be found dirt cheap on ebay. IMO they are netter then Xeen and worth of keeping as backup or low budget option. Main problem with them is that thay vary a lot some are better then others.

- Iron glass is fantastic and hopefully there will be V2 internal focus real rehousing in future. the cover VV have a nice and particular character and they are more effect lenses with strong "bake in look" still i would love to have them and most probably i will buy them as soon as they come out with V2. down side is that at S35 they dont look as interesting as they look on VV. also limited amount of focal lengts that dont match optically and most of them are 2.8


In conclusion i would say my preference. after more then 2 decades of fiddling with lenses, soothing on film and now on digital my all time favorite photo lens are Nikon AIS high speed: 20/2.8, 24/2, 28/2, 35/1.4, 50/1.2, 85/1.4, 105/1.8, 135/2.0 they have vintage character but they are clean enough for all around work. stooped 2 stops they look modern and they are still fast enough for everyday job. if this lenses are rehoused (KinCamera 2000$ up to Zero Optic 5000$) they become superb S35 and VV lenses, vintage and contemporary at the price point of Sigmas.

 

[Alex Lubensky]

just to to give my 2 cents to this discussion; looks like we are mixing apples and peaches a bit. New VS Vintage, S35 VS VV lenses.

- Red Pro Primes and Unioptics are exselant and i dont understand why are they so under rated ??? i think they are far better then Xeen if you stay in the S35 range. down side is size, S35 and i would like to know how are they covering Helium and Gemini?

There are some things definately to consider when looking into RED lenses. I've seen some, used some over the last decade and the experience is a bit mixed. Pro Primes are different in size - this happens to a lot of sets, say 135 or 16mm could be bigger than other lenses in the set, but in the RPP set the change in size happens in the middle, making 18, 25, 35 bigger in size compared to others. Big front element is another pain nowadays, most rentals doesn't have clip-ons or studio matte boxes suitable for the front diameter of RPP or RPZ.

I do own a RPZ 18-85 T2.9 lens right now, it has some downsides like 143mm front diameter, strange streaks in the bokeh at T2.9, which are corrected from T4. I definitely wouldn’t pay 10 grand for it when it was new, but today you can find it for a dirt cheap price of around 2500 us, and it does cover full range from 18 to 85mm while being fast enough for a lot of jobs. For me it’s a nice bang for the buck considering popularity of zooms on music videos nowadays, and accepting some commercials are still shot from a dolly or sticks.


Some say it’s heavy, which it is measuring 4,5 kg, but it’s actually pretty-much the same as Arri Allura 18-80 T2.6 zoom.

It does cover 4K, while it vignettes at 5k (it was made for a red one in mind). I think it’s the same about Prime set

 

[Alex Lubensky]

Shot on RPZ 18-85 T2.9

 

[Luka Sanader]

Some say it’s heavy, which it is measuring 4,5 kg, but it’s actually pretty-much the same as Arri Allura 18-80 T2.6 zoom.

It does cover 4K, while it vignettes at 5k (it was made for a red one in mind). I think it’s the same about Prime set

i wounder how would this look on Helium and Gemini, did you try? as for the fornt size 143 is odd but if its your lens its easy to find solution