Blackmagic Design is rumored to announce a new L-mount cinema camera on September 14

[Brian Timmons]

I can't vouch for the info in these threads but here are some older lists for various cameras.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3693977

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic...shutter-guide/

Cine D may have listings for modern cameras.

Rolling shutter is not different than noise, dynamic range, compression artifacts, etc in that everyone has their unique levels of tolerance.

20ms and beyond seems to generally be my limits for most work.
Others have their own.

RED One MX is about 16.5ms and it generally works well for me.
I'm pretty sure the original Mysterium was slower though I doubt it was beyond 20ms.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[rand thompson]

Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K 6K 17:9 & Blackmagic Design Ursa Mini Pro 12K 12K DCI


Just a comparison between the S35 Ursa Mini Pro's 12k Rolling Shutter and the Full-Frame Cinema Camera 6K Rolling Shutter at their highest DCI Sensor Resolutions.


Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K:

6048 x 3200 - 19.90ms

Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 12K:

12K - 17:9 - 15.55ms

PHFX
PHFX.COM | tools - formatCompare - Blackmagic Design Cinema Camera 6K 6K 17:9 & Blackmagic Design Ursa Mini Pro 12K 12K DCI - Crop Factor Datasheet

 

[Brian Timmons]

Ultimately i would have to play around with this camera to fully grasp the good and bad but i will say that the RS performance at DCI spec is not horrible.

Thanks Rand for pointing that out and Savanah's RS chart.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA

 

[rand thompson]

New BLACKMAGIC CINEMA CAMERA 6K | ANAMORPHIC 6:5 Footage


By Of Two Lands

 

[rand thompson]

First Look - Blackmagic Pocket 6K Full Frame Cage Prototype



By MID49

 

[rand thompson]

Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K uitgelegd | IBC 2023


By BM - Broadcast Magazine

 

[rand thompson]

Hands on with the new BMCC6K Full Frame | SUNSET and LOW LIGHT FOOTAGE | Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K


By Matteo Bertoli

 

[rand thompson]

I removed some the green from the skin and slightly increased exposure in the MIDS in the night scenes in Matteo video. I used ACES with a "REC709" "Input Transform"

ReGrades

 

[Savannah Miller]

RED V-Raptor full frame 8K 17:9 DCI 8 ms
RED Komodo OG 0 ms
RED Komodo X 0 ms

That's a loaded comment. I think the highest red cameras are around 17ms

If you look at all the non-sony BM cameras they are also under 10ms. 4.6K G2, 12K sensor shooting full sensor 8K, blackmagic pocket cinema camera

 

[Zack Birlew]

Anybody got measurements for rolling shutter on DSMC1 and DSMC2? Again, just for comparison and reference.

 

[Jon Pais]

That's a loaded comment. I think the highest red cameras are around 17ms

If you look at all the non-sony BM cameras they are also under 10ms. 4.6K G2, 12K sensor shooting full sensor 8K, blackmagic pocket cinema camera

What are you going on about? The question was what the RS figures for RED cameras are, and I provided them. The cameras currently available for purchase on RED's website are all variations of the V-Raptor and Komodo.

 

[Josh Rainey]

Obviously she's talking about DSMC2. Still a lot of those for sale. Monstro skew is definitely noticeable handheld. Dragon never seemed so bad, it's 13-14ms.

It's very relevant because people are constantly asking komodo vs DSMC2 used. I know a lot of people shoot amazing things on Monstro, but the RS is the only thing that would keep me from picking one up used. Everyone has a different tolerance level.

But this latest Pocket 6k open gate anamorphic footage is making me seasick.

 

[Jon Pais]

Obviously she's talking about DSMC2.

Is that so? No one asked for the DSMC2 or DSMC1 figures until after I posted my reply, Mr. Rainey. There is nothing LOADED in my reply. Rather than wasting time analyzing my posts, why not just answer the OG's question?

 

[Phil Holland]

Obviously she's talking about DSMC2. Still a lot of those for sale. Monstro skew is definitely noticeable handheld. Dragon never seemed so bad, it's 13-14ms.

It's very relevant because people are constantly asking komodo vs DSMC2 used. I know a lot of people shoot amazing things on Monstro, but the RS is the only thing that would keep me from picking one up used. Everyone has a different tolerance level.

But this latest Pocket 6k open gate anamorphic footage is making me seasick.

Monstro was around 16ms at 8K full height. At 6K it was the same as Dragon. Raptor cut that in half to about 8ms.

I'll push out some additional thoughts regarding format size playing a role here, but that might be too much to digest, but it is relevant to shot execution and focal lengths. Additionally, it's worth testing rolling shutter in a few different ways outside of readout, but that's more about shot recoverability when things to get weird.

My POV here, nobody is saying you can't make motion picture content with rolling shutters. It's just a more notable trend that companies are working hard to increase readout speed or eliminate the issue entirely as an industry trend for a generation or two of cameras. This is generally happening on the higher end however.

Current go to cameras that lead in this area are:
- Komodo and Komodo-X - Global Shutter, S35
- Sony Venice II - Around 3ms for all practical purposes
- RED V-Raptors 8K - Around 8ms full res
- Arri Alexa 35 - Around 8ms

To the point of Komodo-X, with the various improvements it provides when it comes to IQ and Low Light performance, it also having a global shutter is a real nice thing for some. And yes, there are people who seem to "not care" about global shutter and want more DR and all that. And since the obvious is being ignored from that perspective, with Komodo-X over Komodo does have slightly more dynamic range, cleaner shadows, improved color, etc. than it's predecessor. And no, that doesn't mean Komodo itself doesn't make decent images. It means that "not shockingly" in this case, that the newer camera does more or does things better. Which tends to be how the tides move with all of this.

 

[Jon Pais]

It doesn't have to be fast motion at all. You can see the nauseating effect of jello in handheld shots with next to no subject motion at all in online sample footage. There is nothing cinematic whatsoever about 30ms rolling shutter.

 

[rand thompson]

Here's a video from CVP from 2 years ago comparing the older Blackmagic 6K Pro vs the RED Komodo OG vs the Canon C70 vs the Z-Cam S6 S35 sensored cameras in both "OVER" and "UNDER" tests. I would love to see a Comparison in the future of the Blackmagic Cinema 6K Full Frame Camera, Komodo-X, V-Raptor and one or two other competitors.

00:00 - Intro
00:58 - Context
01:36 - Creative Tests
04:08 - Sensor // Controlled Tests
05:27 - Rolling Shutter
06:08 - ISO
06:48 - Aliasing
07:02 - Dynamic Range
07:22 - Latitude - Over
08:57 - Latitude - Under
09:42 - Tech Specs // Codecs & Formats
12:53- Frame Rates
14:39 - Gen 5 Colour Science
16:00 - Gamma
16:44 - How to Expose // Optimal Settings
17:35 - ND Filters
20:50- Lens Mount
22:19 - New Back Screen
24:33 - Pro EVF
28:41- Battery // Power
31:31- Media
34:05 - Autofocus
34:49 - Audio
35:20 - Workflow
37:22 - Control
38:29 - Menu
40:04 - Pixel Remapping
40:48 - Camera Preset
41:26 - LUTS
42:19 - Timelapse
42:44 - Playback Issues
43:22 - Physical
45:24 - On DJI RS2
46:27 - Making a Purchase Decision
47:34 - Outro



I only show the "+3 and +4" Over and the "-3 and -4" Under results because "+3" is right before all the cameras fail in the "Highlights" and "+4" is where they all fail. At "-3" and "-4" Under, You can see how all the cameras handle lowlight performance.


"+3 and +4" Over for all the Cameras.

Blackmagic 6K Pro

Canon C70

RED Komodo OG

Z-Cam S6

"-3 and -4" Under for all the Cameras.


Blackmagic 6K Pro

Canon C70

RED Komodo OG

Z-Cam S6

 

[Josh Rainey]

Monstro was around 16ms at 8K full height. At 6K it was the same as Dragon. Raptor cut that in half to about 8ms.

Is Helium the same as Monstro at 8K?

 

[rand thompson]

MID49 Cage for Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K – First Look


By CineD



Article
https://www.cined.com/mid49-cage-for-blackmagic-cinema-camera-6k-first-look/

 

[rand thompson]

Blackmagic Camera APP

Website
Blackmagic Camera | Blackmagic Design

Download
Blackmagic Camera on the App Store (apple.com)

PDF
Blackmagic Camera – Tech Specs | Blackmagic Design | Responsive

 

[rand thompson]

Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K Manual PDF
BlackmagicCinemaCameraManual.pdf (blackmagicdesign.com)