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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Blackmagic Design is rumored to announce a new L-mount cinema camera on September 14

Here's a video I made from the regraded John Brawley Cinema 6K Full Frame Camera Braw files in ACES. I didn't include any audio this time around.

EDIT:

I re-did the Video below to give proper credit to all of the contributors of the footage in the video and I wanted to add an additional 2 shots and make other modifications as well. I had wrongly assumed that all of the Sample Clips were from John Brawley. However I found that not only John Brawley but Florent Piovesan and Matteo Bertoli contributed also, so I added them in the closing credits.

The Video was graded in Aces and Exported out as a 27.8GB DNxHR HQ DCI 4K file which I uploaded to Youtube.


 
Last edited:
Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K explained: Fullframe Sensor, L-Mount, Dynamic Range ...


By slashcam



 
I think what's throwing people off is the release of the camera.

For an imx410 camera I believe this has better rolling shutter than the competitors.

This camera is multi format, has lots of lens choices, and has very large photosite.

The issue is that this is the camera people would have wanted 2 years ago.
 
Mid49 Upper Cage for Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K


By Newsshooter



 
Blackmagic 6k full frame Cinema camera test. PLEASE VIEW FULL SCREEN.


By
vance burberry



 
rand thompson said:
Blackmagic 6k full frame Cinema camera test. PLEASE VIEW FULL SCREEN.


By
vance burberry



Click to expand...

Thanks Rand.
I held out commenting before seeing just how bad the slow rolling
might be in real world use but the shot at 1:03 confirms how sensitive it can be to movement.

Despite the size this is definitely not a camera to use for action shots.

BMD might look into trying to optimize RS performance as much as they can.

I traditionally choose BMD cameras over most DSLRs
but this is one of their 1st pocket cameras to fall short mainly
due to this slow RS issue. Granted it’s mainly at full frame but that format seems to be the big selling point of this camera.

Interesting in Savannah’s post that the Panasonic S1H’s RS is actually slower.
I did use that camera on a shoot about a month ago and
didn’t notice though I was cropped at S35.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Andrew Dease said:
One thing I noticed was how FLAT the image looked, FOV wise... I think for some reason when I have seen tests of the Komodo using the Full Frame Adaptor, it looks "squeezed" or something, maybe its the subtle distortion from the adaptor? But the Brawler Pocket 6K Full Frame diner clips looked very flast FOV wise which is great... I wonder if side by side with the Komodo with Canon adaptor, if the images would look almost identical FOV/"compression" wise...
Click to expand...


Hey Andrew,

Not a definitive test but it seems to perform well enough.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Brian Timmons said:
Thanks Rand.
I held out commenting before seeing just how bad the slow rolling
might be in real world use but the shot at 1:03 confirms how sensitive it can be to movement.

Despite the size this is definitely not a camera to use for action shots.

BMD might look into trying to optimize RS performance as much as they can.

I traditionally choose BMD cameras over most DSLRs
but this is one of their 1st pocket cameras to fall short mainly
due to this slow RS issue. Granted it’s mainly at full frame but that format seems to be the big selling point of this camera.

Interesting in Savannah’s post that the Panasonic S1H’s RS is actually slower.
I did use that camera on a shoot about a month ago and
didn’t notice though I was cropped at S35.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

Brian,


The Footage from the camera grades very well. However, you can see in some of the clips in the video I made above that the Rolling shutter, at least in the sample video files I graded, showed in some of the scenes with some movement. I had to "STABLIZE" the scene of the "mother and here son" in the wooded area because the Rolling shutter was kinda of bad. It helped some but I think you can still see some in that scene and the second to last scene of the "Girl and the guy in the car" and some others. I'm sure some of the more experienced Blackmagic Design Camera users than myself probably have figured out some ways to negate this effect to a reasonable extent . I hope so because it would be a real shame for the "ROLLING SHUTTER" of this camera to relegate it to Un usability for any significant projects.
 
Brian Timmons said:
Interesting in Savannah’s post that the Panasonic S1H’s RS is actually slower.
I did use that camera on a shoot about a month ago and
didn’t notice though I was cropped at S35.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

The S1H is 30ms and the new 6K is 25ms. In DCI shooting modes the blackmagic is under 20ms which is reasonable.

The new panasonic full frame cameras like S5II which use the same sensor are roughly the same as the blackmagic or just a fraction slower.

The panasonic versions of the cameras are slightly windowed too but that is probably because of IBIS.


Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K:
  • 6048 x 4032 - 25.08ms
  • 6048 x 3200 - 19.90ms
  • 6048 x 2520 - 15.67ms
  • 4838 x 4032 - 25.08ms
  • 4096 x 3072 - 19.10ms
  • 4096 x 2160 - 15.13ms
  • 2112 x 1184 - 8.29ms
  • 1920 x 1080 - 7.56ms
As you can see in 4K S35 mode it is slightly better than the existing Blackmagic pocket cameras (4K and 6K) in full sensor mode.

Most of the artifacts on that video above look like stabilization artifacts. I would not read too much into that test.
 
Last edited:
Savannah Miller said:
The S1H is 30ms and the new 6K is 25ms. In DCI shooting modes the blackmagic is under 20ms which is reasonable.

The new panasonic full frame cameras like S5II which use the same sensor are roughly the same or just a fraction slower.
Click to expand...

Interesting.
It's the problem at this price range. You tend to have a mix of decent features and advancements with some trap doors and caveats.

On another note: surprised no one mentioned the BMD app for the iPhone's internal camera.
Didn't try it yet but it actually looks quite nice.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Brian Timmons said:
Interesting.
It's the problem at this price range. You tend to have a mix of decent features and advancements with some trap doors and caveats.

On another note: surprised no one mentioned the BMD app for the iPhone's internal camera.
Didn't try it yet but it actually looks quite nice.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

One thing to notice is every camera blackmagic has ever made using either their own sensor or non-sony (blackmagic 12k, ursa mini 4.6K G2, pocket, bmcc) the rolling shutter times have been reasonable.

The rolling shutter times using these sony sensors is just a limitation of the sensor.

The comparable sony cameras also have equally bad rolling shutter.

The only sony cameras with good rolling shutter are the ones using the proprietary sensors

you can see the BM 12K is under 8ms in 8K and so is the 4.6K G2.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...p?f=2&t=156200
 
Savannah Miller said:
One thing to notice is every camera blackmagic has ever made using either their own sensor or non-sony (blackmagic 12k, ursa mini 4.6K G2, pocket, bmcc) the rolling shutter times have been reasonable.

The rolling shutter times using these sony sensors is just a limitation of the sensor.

The comparable sony cameras also have equally bad rolling shutter.

The only sony cameras with good rolling shutter are the ones using the proprietary sensors

you can see the BM 12K is under 8ms in 8K and so is the 4.6K G2.

https://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/v...p?f=2&t=156200
Click to expand...

Yes- agreed. It's one of the reasons why I often felt BMD cameras were traditionally a decent alternative to DSLRs at this price range.
It's why I think this is an unfortunate hiccup.
For personal projects it may not be the biggest deal.

I can see it being a potential issue for paid work and certain types of clients.
Some clients are looking for any way they can to ding you on the rate and this doesn't help.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Thanks Savannah for this RS chart for the Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K.

I think the DCI Frame rate is what I would want to shoot in anyway. I wouldn't want to play around with cropping the same 17:9 aspect out of the 3:2 aspect anyway. I then think it just comes down to what you feel is acceptable for RS in your different range of work.


Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K:
  • 6048 x 4032 - 25.08ms
  • 6048 x 3200 - 19.90ms
  • 6048 x 2520 - 15.67ms
  • 4838 x 4032 - 25.08ms
  • 4096 x 3072 - 19.10ms
  • 4096 x 2160 - 15.13ms
  • 2112 x 1184 - 8.29ms
  • 1920 x 1080 - 7.56ms
 
Brian Timmons said:
Interesting.
It's the problem at this price range. You tend to have a mix of decent features and advancements with some trap doors and caveats.

On another note: surprised no one mentioned the BMD app for the iPhone's internal camera.
Didn't try it yet but it actually looks quite nice.


Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
Click to expand...

I downloaded the app and it looks pretty freaking fantastic. Haven't tried it out yet, though.
 
Blackmagic Design Pocket Cinema 6K at IBC 2023



By mebulive


 
I looked it up and that rolling shutter is close to the Canon 5D Mark II, I made my multi-award winning short film series, "The Review- A Fatal Frame Fan Film", using that and had a great time with it. So, again, if I didn't have my eye on 8K alternatives, the Pocket Cinema 6K would be a must-have and it may still be in my kit at some point, we'll see.

For further reference, does anybody have a chart of RED camera rolling shutter measurements?
 
Zack Birlew said:
I looked it up and that rolling shutter is close to the Canon 5D Mark II, I made my multi-award winning short film series, "The Review- A Fatal Frame Fan Film", using that and had a great time with it. So, again, if I didn't have my eye on 8K alternatives, the Pocket Cinema 6K would be a must-have and it may still be in my kit at some point, we'll see.

For further reference, does anybody have a chart of RED camera rolling shutter measurements?
Click to expand...

Hey Zack,

That sounds about right and the 5D MkII (a camera from 15 years ago) had sub standard rolling shutter performance.

To me there's better full frame alternatives to this particular BMD model (granted for more $$$).
Some may be fine with it while for others it's NG.

As Savanah pointed out the S35 4K RS performance is more in line with what's generally acceptable.

The new BMD 6K is a release that intros a nice new feature (full frame) but the execution is not quite there (at least for me).
I'm sure BMD will eventually release a solid full frame camera but based on what I've seen I don't think this is it.
Wouldn't be surprised if this model gets updated in a year or so with a better sensor that manages the RS a bit better.

As an S35 camera, however, it seems like a decent release for the price.
The images do seem quite nice.

At least there are options.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Here's a list of all of the Blackmagic Camera "READOUT SPEEDS" on Blackmagic Design's Forum

Blackmagic Forum • View topic - Blackmagic Camera Readout Speeds (blackmagicdesign.com)



Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 12K:

12K - 17:9 - 15.55ms
12K - 2.4:1 - 12.27ms
8K - 17:9* - 7.78ms
4K - 17:9* - 7.78ms
6K - Super16 - 7.78ms
8K - 2.4:1** - 6.13ms
4K - 2.4:1** - 6.13ms
4K - Super16 - 3.89ms

*full field of view
**full width

Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 4.6K G2:

4.6K - 7.59ms
4K - 6.32ms
2K - 3.16ms

Blackmagic Cinema Camera 6K:

6048 x 4032 - 25.08ms
6048 x 3200 - 19.90ms
6048 x 2520 - 15.67ms
4838 x 4032 - 25.08ms
4096 x 3072 - 19.10ms
4096 x 2160 - 15.13ms
2112 x 1184 - 8.29ms
1920 x 1080 - 7.56ms


Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K (Pro/G2):

6K - 19.73ms
6K 2.4:1 - 14.61ms
5.7K - 16.26ms
UHD - 15.79ms
3.7K anamorphic - 16.42ms
2.8K - 7.98ms

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K:

4K - 16.22ms
4K 2.4:1 - 12.91ms
2.8K anamorphic - 12.00ms
2.6K 16:9 (S16) - 7.98ms
2K - 7.83ms

Blackmagic URSA Broadcast G2:

6K - 19.73ms
6K 2.4:1 - 14.61ms
5.4K 16:9 - 16.26ms
UHD - 15.79ms
3.7K anamorphic - 16.42ms
HD - 6.00ms

Blackmagic Studio Camera 4K Plus,
Blackmagic Studio Camera 4K Pro:

4K - 16.22ms


"Legacy" Products

Blackmagic URSA Mini 4.6K:

4.6K – 15.17ms
4K/2160p – 12.64ms
2K/1080p – 6.32ms

Blackmagic Cinema Camera:

23.62ms

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera:

17.74ms

Blackmagic Micro Cinema Camera:

13.3ms

Blackmagic Micro Studio 4K,
Blackmagic URSA Broadcast G1:

9.9ms
 
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