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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

upgrade in jeopardy?

upgrade in jeopardy?

If I can't upgrade I'm gonna be pissed. PLEASE, don't make a final call on this until RED has an actual concrete reason to prevent us from upgrading to the new sensor or epic. If I broke it, I'll fix it, If I caused problems, that's my problem but if this is just a matter of principal that results in me not having an upgrade path then I really feel like I'm getting screwed.
 
Well, shit.

Jarred, this really does come as a surprise. Obviously I don't know the conversations you guys had at RED HQ, but it seemed very clear from your previous, seemingly-definitive post that installing the mount wouldn't void the global warranty per se -- regardless of who did it -- but that any damage that occurred in doing so (poking the sensor, pinching the /i-cable) wouldn't be covered by RED. It sounded like good old common sense.

Based on that understanding (which, again, I can't stress this enough, seemed self-evident from your previous posts here) I've already got my Birger mount installed on the camera. So what does this mean for camera owners like me? Are we now ineligible for the audio upgrade? Is Epic X out of the question?
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Jarred, if this is the final word of RED, you should definitely start a new thread a say this out in loud. I urge you to do so to avoid any further misunderstandings.
Click to expand...

its not our place.. we are not the manufacture and we cannot spread the word on every 3rd party product out there. 3rd party manufacturers need to be open in communication to their customers, We cant do that for them.
 
It seems there is a widely agreed upon misunderstanding - if that makes any sense...

not blaming anyone, just stating the obvious.... and hoping that folks are talking....resolving...

I hope
 
Jarred Land said:
its not our place..
Click to expand...

Ok, although this has been an utmost last minute disappointment after waiting for the Birger mounts for almost 13 months, I do understand your reasoning. But then, I feel RED should correspondingly accept the criticism that you did mislead us as your customers with the announcement you made with Birger around NAB'07.
 
Hmmm. Not happy. :(
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
Ok, although this has been an utmost last minute disappointment after waiting for the Birger mounts for almost 13 months, I do understand your reasoning. But then, I feel RED should correspondingly accept the criticism that you did mislead us as your customers with the announcement you made with Birger around NAB'07.
Click to expand...

Alot of things changed since NAB 07... actually pretty much Everything changed.

Listen.. I am sorry you guys are upset. Me and Stuart made an agreement with Birger and spent resources testing it so you guys could get the best of both worlds. Im sorry you guys feel like this is someone our responsibility, that fact alone is what I have been worried about all along, RED being held responsibility by actions of 3rd parties.

We CANNOT babysit the 3rd party process... We have enough to do ourselves.
 
Jarred Land said:
Guys.. I am sorry this was not communicated to you.. I havn't heard anything about it either myself, since we had the face to face meeting way back when and the terms where agreed.

Unfortunately this is part of the struggle when we enter this kind of grey territory, I understand why most companies just stay away from it.

And we arn't just picking on Erik because we really believe he makes a great product.. this is the policy that applies to all others that modify the RED camera beyond a certain point.
Click to expand...

So will this mount squash our upgrade path to Epic??

Please let us know asap.

Thanks,
Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging
 
Lauri Kettunen said:
RED should correspondingly accept the criticism that you did mislead us
Click to expand...

Strong words Lauri, probably typed in a moment of utter frustration - frustration that I do very much understand. But I think that it is not RED who should be the addressee - after all it was Erik who a) desgined and manufactures these mounts b) agreed to the terms and c) should have informed his customers about it.

RED did state - chocolate induced & stretching further than any other camera company I know of - that the Birger mount would not void the warranty of other parts of the camera. We all happily implied that this meant that we could do the installation ourselves. It is very disappointing that this turns out to be not the case, but again, the blame should not fall on RED.
 
Voids Upgrade Path To Epic??

Voids Upgrade Path To Epic??

Mark Pugh said:
Voids upgrade path to Epic.
Click to expand...

Where did this information come from Mark??

Thanks,
Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging

Haven't seen a confirmed answer from Jarred on this. But we need one as soon as possible.
 
Jarred Land said:
Guys.. I am sorry this was not communicated to you.. I havn't heard anything about it either myself, since we had the face to face meeting way back when and the terms where agreed
Click to expand...

Given the level of interest and the clear concern of potential Birger customers the revelation of these 'terms' now is just incredible.

Why did the 'key terms' not get published by RED after the face to face meeting ? After all, RED are the gatekeepers ...
It would have saved considerable time, $'s and effort all round.
Birger made a number of posting after the meeting ... if the 'key terms' did not appear in these entries, why did RED not follow up ?

I cannot even imagine how busy you folk are at RED, but the way this has all been managed is very poor indeed :bye2:
 
Confused about RED One and Birger Mount/Epic Upgrade

Confused about RED One and Birger Mount/Epic Upgrade

Joe Vinson said:
I just found this:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=296619#post296619

Which of course most of us had no idea about.

Crap crappity crap.
Click to expand...

Well I guess this post should answer the question though if you will not be able to upgrade to Epic or not. This was posted on 10-3-08 on the IMS Thread.

Originally Posted by Jarred Land
Thanks for the offer Sanjin, And by all means, anyone can install the mount if they choose.. We arn't trying to tell anyone what they can and cannot do... its your camera.

But when it comes time for the free warranty upgrades and time for the camera/sensor/EPIC/ etc upgrade program... camera's with voided warranties dont get those emails.
I hope this doesn't include the Birger mount, correct?

10-03-2008, 12:56 PM #148
Jarred Land
Fire Chief



Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 2,478

Nope.. Birger mount originally had issues, but we worked with Eric and the Birger mount now is approved by RED. You obviously will need to send the camera back though with the RED PL mount attached, for both the Audio board upgrade plan and the Trade in Program.

Just saw this post and I'm really confused now.

Waiting to exhale,
Frazier Nivens, Ocean Imaging
 
Here´s the original of the post Frazier mentions:
Jarred Land said:
Nope.. Birger mount originally had issues, but we worked with Eric and the Birger mount now is approved by RED. You obviously will need to send the camera back though with the RED PL mount attached, for both the Audio board upgrade plan and the Trade in Program.
Click to expand...
 
Indeed Frazier, to make the following statement and NOT include the key detail that has just emerged is just incredible ! How much effort would it have been to add that the Birger mount needs to be installed by Birger or an approved 3rd party ?

Is RED London / Pinewood approved ?

Nope.. Birger mount originally had issues, but we worked with Eric and the Birger mount now is approved by RED. You obviously will need to send the camera back though with the RED PL mount attached, for both the Audio board upgrade plan and the Trade in Program.
 
I think I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel... Unfortunately, I hear the train horn blowing.

So, two questions:

1) What is the determination of a "Certified 3rd Party Installer"?
2) What kind of documentation is necessary for RED's warranty purposes?

Based on these answers, I hope to determine if the oncoming train is on the other set of tracks, narrowly avoiding disaster, or if I need to jump off the Birger Train and do my best to avoid the flying debri.
 
Nice analogy, Kyle :)

Jarred, just for clarification and to avoid having an Akube/Sanjin moment:

Am I correct at implying that any 3rd party accessory that does not change the R1 in any way is safe - i.e. batteries, CF cards, start/stop buttons, USB-lights, break-out-boxes, Handle bars? (Obviously, if they do damage something inside the R1, this will not be covered under warranty, but leave the trade-in path open.)

Am I correct at implying that any 3rd party accessory that needs to change the R1 in order to work will void the warranty - unless stated otherwise by RED?

For us non-America-based, will there be an option to get the Birger mount installed/certified at RED London?
 
Right, this is why I had a strong feeling Jarred changed today the policy towards the Birger mount! It seems Jarred owns us now an explanation.
 
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