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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

MikeHedge said:
yep. I have my 50 f1.4 and my 17-55 f2.8 geared by Duclos. the FF was rented from indierentals
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I've asked this before ... lets try again :

a) Aperture control (mount buttons) work ? or did you use it as a dumb mount ?
b) How did you know what aperture you used at any one point in time (if you did indeed control aperture via the mount buttons) ?
c) Powered the mount from the camera or independently ?
 
the mount works the way Erik talks about. there are three buttons. when you hold the top and bottom together at the same time then release it will open all the way wide. then you hit the bottom button and it stop down half stop. you hit the top button it opens up half stop.

so you know your f stop by counting 1.4/2/2.8/4/5.6/8 etc...

this work via theLEMO that connect from the side of theBirger to the AUX in the back...
 
I spoke with Erik today. He is busy doing final quality tests. As you have heard he had some manufacturing problems. Of the three production mount sent to me, the first had a software glitch that kept triggering the GPIO. Erik found the problem and fixed the software problem for all production units. The second was haunted. It would start focusing and stopping down on it's own. Rodney Charters mount also had this problem. My third mount arrived DOA. Erik carefully inspected the last two mounts and found a manufacturing defect with some of the solders. This has now been fixed. Remember there has been no real beta cycle for this product. I have been testing an Alpha dumb mount since late January but have only had the production mounts for a few weeks. Red had many months of beta before the first production shipment. Erik is craming a lot of beta feedback and engineering solutions into a very short period of time. Erik is hoping to ship a good number of mounts by Friday. I asked him to make a post and he said that all his energy right now is making sure every mount is going to be reliable in the field before it ships. All I can say is, the working mount is awsome.
 
Mark Crabtree said:
I spoke with Erik today. He is busy doing final quality tests. As you have heard he had some manufacturing problems. Of the three production mount sent to me, the first had a software glitch that kept triggering the GPIO. Erik found the problem and fixed the software problem for all production units. The second was haunted. It would start focusing and stopping down on it's own. Rodney Charters mount also had this problem. My third mount arrived DOA. Erik carefully inspected the last two mounts and found a manufacturing defect with some of the solders. This has now been fixed. Remember there has been no real beta cycle for this product. I have been testing an Alpha dumb mount since late January but have only had the production mounts for a few weeks. Red had many months of beta before the first production shipment. Erik is craming a lot of beta feedback and engineering solutions into a very short period of time. Erik is hoping to ship a good number of mounts by Friday. I asked him to make a post and he said that all his energy right now is making sure every mount is going to be reliable in the field before it ships. All I can say is, the working mount is awsome.
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Thanks Mark. So good to hear something.
 
Mark Crabtree said:
As you have heard he had some manufacturing problems.
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Mark, Thanks a lot for the info. In my eyes beta testing is a very good and acceptable reason for the delay. Guess, Erik fell into the pitfalls of his earlier promises and is now in bit difficult position; Whatever he says is easily interpreted through his earlier comments. But, all this will be forgotten once the mounts get mounted to the cameras and people will start to shoot with EF-lenses. Erik, just keep going doing your good work!
 
Thanks Mark,

it's really reassuring to hear what is actually going on. I think we are all much more understaning when we know what's happening.

So how long have you had the new mount? Have you been putting it through a lot of field testing?
 
Thanks Mark. Maybe you can take the strain off Erik and post little morsels of news to keep us in the loop?

Cheers
 
joelnet said:
Can the lens/mount keep up with a very fast follow focus? I'm assuming "working mount" means you can focus it somehow, is that true? Knobs?
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The mount requires a knob for remote focus. In April at the Reduser party during NAB Erik had a prototype knob which worked very impressively. It was smooth, repeatably accurate and extremely fast. The L series lenses have the fastest and most robust motors. If you do still photo work you know how lightening fast the lenses can focus, I don't think we're going to have any problem with the lens keeping up with your hand. The prototype knob was very well made, good size, materials, feel. Only problem was it needed adjustable tension. This is now in the design but the knobs are still waiting to be built until a big chunk of mounts gets shipped. There was a statement by VFS that their knob will work with the mount and will be deliverable very soon. It looks great but it's way more expensive. But if you can't wait for the knob from Erik it is an option.
 
What ?!?!?!

What ?!?!?!

Mark Crabtree said:
I spoke with Erik today. He is busy doing final quality tests. As you have heard he had some manufacturing problems. Of the three production mount sent to me, the first had a software glitch that kept triggering the GPIO. Erik found the problem and fixed the software problem for all production units. The second was haunted. It would start focusing and stopping down on it's own. Rodney Charters mount also had this problem. My third mount arrived DOA. Erik carefully inspected the last two mounts and found a manufacturing defect with some of the solders. This has now been fixed. Remember there has been no real beta cycle for this product. I have been testing an Alpha dumb mount since late January but have only had the production mounts for a few weeks. Red had many months of beta before the first production shipment. Erik is craming a lot of beta feedback and engineering solutions into a very short period of time. Erik is hoping to ship a good number of mounts by Friday. I asked him to make a post and he said that all his energy right now is making sure every mount is going to be reliable in the field before it ships. All I can say is, the working mount is awsome.
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Sure it's an update ... BUT ... am I the only one that is staggered by what I'm reading ?!?!?!

QUOTE : [busy doing final quality tests] : not sure how this fits in with the fact that final payments were collected from some folk 30+ days ago AND Erik's most recent post (and email to me) suggesting shipping had re-started (Mon and Tue this week); currenlty Thursday and no notifcations yet

QUOTE : [Of the three production mount sent to me, the first had a software glitch that kept triggering the GPIO. Erik found the problem and fixed the software problem for all production units. The second was haunted. It would start focusing and stopping down on it's own. Rodney Charters mount also had this problem. My third mount arrived DOA. Erik carefully inspected the last two mounts and found a manufacturing defect with some of the solders. This has now been fixed] : so what time frames you speaking about ? January 08 for 1st unit, ??? for the '2nd haunted' unit, ??? for '3rd DOA' unit ... all this seems to imply no QA before the units ships ? hence the recent (current !) testing ?

QUOTE : [Remember there has been no real beta cycle for this product] : so what has been said a number of times before must clearly be fiction ?

QUOTE : [Erik is craming a lot of beta feedback and engineering solutions into a very short period of time] : hmmm, if we are to believe what has been said in the past, beta testing started way back (months) ... eg: you received your '1st software glitch' mount in January 08 ? ... so I'm not sure how 'short' equates to 'months' for what is being tested.

What is the current functionality of the mount (what is enabled and expected to work once current testing is done & units ship) ?
What is pipeline stuff ?

Bewildering stuff ... :angry03:
 
Thank you Mark for your comments and help. It is really appreciated.

I don't want to add more wood to the fire. But I see a basic problem that keeps getting repeated. Beta testing is really important. But letting the people who are waiting for their mounts know what's going on is as important. We need to know if we are going on a Beta program mode or a real shipping mode. I don't think it is asking too much. If Eric's technique of "shipping now, shipping next week." is just to keep us hanging in there, that's very unfair.

For me, there is only one problem with the Birger mount, and it doesn't have to be with the delays AT ALL. Sure it sucks that I don't have my Birger yet. But what it makes me furious is all the inaccuracies we've experienced that makes us feel the Birger is imminent for 1 year. It is very difficult to plan things like this.

And it doesn't matter what happens, Birger keeps making the same mistakes. When you tell 75 times "mounts are shipping" and then nothing ships, by the 76 time, I have to say that I'm extremely tired. And I think it is really unfair for us trying to run a business and make a living with this camera.

Some people will defend Birger saying that when you develop a product you never know the problems ahead. I agree with that, so then don't say shipping. If feels like he is saying Shipping to calm us down, when he doesn't realize that he is creating the complete opposite and making things worse.

When he says Shipping, he should say "SHIPPING 5 more mounts for another month of Beta testing" That would be clear.

Few days ago he just said. "Again shipping more mounts"

What does it mean "Again shipping more mounts"? Does it mean "Again shipping more mounts for Beta testing" or "Again shipping more mounts for non Red user cameras?" Either say something and be clear, or just say we are still working on the mount, or don't say anything.

I have never experienced anything as frustrating as this. Ever. PERIOD.

And please Birger correct me if I am wrong in something and I will apologize in public if I said something that it is not correct or out of touch.

We all need our mount, sooner the better, but also working ones. It would really help if you were more careful with your statements, because my feeling is that it is creating more harm than help.
 
h2opixels said:
Sure it's an update ... BUT ... am I the only one that is staggered by what I'm reading ?!?!?!
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David, you certainly are not the only one. Indeed, all this raises a lot of questions. But, I don't know wheter it is productive to speculate and spend time thinking of such questions. The situation is what it is.

In ski jumping they have stylistic and technical scores. The stylistic scores of this process are pretty low. But, I'm living in the hope that the technical scores will be exceptionally high. The worst scenario would be a fraud and the best scenario is a highly sophisticated mount as Mark, Mike and Mike seem to suggest. Likely, developing the mount will be as difficult for the others as well and they also will have unexpected delays.

I assume Erik is a decent person and his reaction (the silence) suggests he feel pretty bad as well. I can understand if he found himself being way too optimistic as engineers often do and he estiamted completely wrong the time he needed to sort out all issues. Prehaps he eventually realized his promises had put him into a difficult position in which the best thing is to shut up, work hard and try to get the mounts out of his workshop as soon as possible. Once this is over and we have the mounts and Erik has a chance to relax, guess we all have learnt something during the process.
 
muffinny said:
What does it mean "Again shipping more mounts"? Does it mean "Again shipping more mounts for Beta testing" or "Again shipping more mounts for non Red user cameras?" Either say something and be clear, or just say we are still working on the mount, or don't say anything.
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This pretty much sums up my frustration too. I've always took the statement 'shipping today' as red production mounts shipped. But it could also mean he just shipped out some wedding invitations...

On a brighter note, if the beta testers are happy and have working stable mounts, then hopefully there isnt much else to go wrong. They must be shipping soon now(he said sheepishly).
 
Just spoke to Erik. He was in a pretty good mood - decidedly better than when I spoke to him a week or two ago.

Mentioned he will probably have a post for us later today.
 
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