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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Birger Lens Mount Reservations

Lowkus you are right on - The birger mount is a blatant case of carrotware - By announcing ridiculously optimistic timelines and delivery dates that always seem to be just around the corner, birger slows the competition from developing an alternative canon mount while keeping customers from investing in alternative mount/lens systems.

For a while I took the time to document the madness then I gave up (that was three months ago!.....or was it two weeks?). See the birgerian timescale here http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13244.
 
As far as I know, and I dont understand it fully, the Red mount consists of two parts (perhaps locked together). One is the canon part, the other the Red board.

So the canon adapter can go on other equipment too. That's the mount which he has been shipping out solo to other companies.
 
darkline said:
As far as I know, and I dont understand it fully, the Red mount consists of two parts (perhaps locked together). One is the canon part, the other the Red board.

So the canon adapter can go on other equipment too. That's the mount which he has been shipping out solo to other companies.
Click to expand...

Thats pretty much it. There is the active EOS EF/EF-S Mount which Birger was shipping pre-Red, which is the product a lot of people have been playing with.

The other section is a totally new, and I believe Red specific collimation assembly that replaces the Red designed setup in order to insure the correct FFD.
 
I gave up about 5 months ago. It may be fantastic product, but in my case what is most important, especially in the first generation phase, is a great customer support.
 
Kenn Christenson said:
I don't understand why he would announce he is "shipping" on the REDuser forum and not ship the mounts intended for the Red camera. :huh:
Click to expand...

I don't know all of the ins and outs of what is going on in the last couple weeks as I have been a little out of touch.

I think the answer to your implicit question is that he shipped a few RED specific mounts and a bunch of the updated but not RED specific mounts to his other customers because they have no issues with power or danger to auxiliary cables on those other simpler and/or more stable and mature cameras. AFAIK there has never been issue with the Birger mount (i.e. for years before RED, AND when we had the prototype setup where you power/control it externally like Andy is doing with his mount.)

As was reported earlier, Mark had a problem with his and although Erik was pretty sure it had to do with the older software and we didn't have a problem with the newer version he probably wanted to be sure and delayed again.

The rules of mail order/credit card sales require shipment within 30 days and I know Erik is fully aware of this. However, the freak out factor on this forum and with the whole RED situation is so high that I think he has taken the position that no matter how bad the criticism gets for no communication it isn't always as bad as what seems to happen when you talk about anything. I won't venture my opinion on whether that is right or wrong, but I understand.

So I am sure that if the situation extends to 30 days people will get there refund opportunity and if necessary David will get his money back within a few days (as Meryem did earlier).
 
Jason Ing said:
Sorry, I meant what was the difference between Andy's and Birger's mount?
Click to expand...

Ok. This is how I understand things.

Andy's mount it basically a 'dumb' EOS mount with the eos pins on it, which in turn connect to a Lemo. All functions are controlled from an external box/pc/whatever. Something must be attached to make it work, even if it is a wireless transceiver. Andy's mount attaches directly to the back focus adjust, exactly like the Red/Underhall Nikon mount. I assume it maintains the correct FFD by just being as thin as possible. (Canon is 44mm, Nikkor is 46.5mm, and PL is more again).

The Birger mount on the other hand is self contained in that all the required electronics are in the mount itself, and the iris can be controlled on the lens mount. Birger also has built in wireless. Birger uses its own collimation assembly, which Eric has stated maintains the correct FFD.


Birger for all the delays, has had a working product for a number of years, one which RED has given the OK to (I don't think Andy will need to do this), while I believe Andy's implementation is newer. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong. Birger also has I data working in the mount, but does not yet have it being recorded by the camera. I don't know if this is something Andy plans to implement.

I suspect the winner of the bulk of the market share here is going to be whoever produces the nicest user experience, once the product is delivered. It may well be the follow focus, not the mount that provides the decisive battle.
 
A couple shots from last week out at Burning Man. I know things will work out.

2858764817_6f99ec3449_m.jpg
2866294684_bbfd8bcb49_m.jpg
2837212313_bb497b9186_m.jpg
2783867096_f2cc22788d_m.jpg
 
andy's mount uses red's existing collimation ring, and the prototype control box displays the f stop. andy's mount is really a no brainer. and it's priced right as well. he communicates realistic dates and seems to have a handle on this thing. birger goes poof and then comes back here with excuses...and even then sounds snotty that his paying customers want/need their mount badly. imagine having your red sitting there without a mount, all because erik keeps saying "we're shipping...now"

i wouldn't invest in a company with that kind of service or attitude.
 
Karlgustav said:
Ok. This is how I understand things.

Andy's mount it basically a 'dumb' EOS mount with the eos pins on it, which in turn connect to a Lemo. All functions are controlled from an external box/pc/whatever. Something must be attached to make it work, even if it is a wireless transceiver. Andy's mount attaches directly to the back focus adjust, exactly like the Red/Underhall Nikon mount. I assume it maintains the correct FFD by just being as thin as possible. (Canon is 44mm, Nikkor is 46.5mm, and PL is more again).

The Birger mount on the other hand is self contained in that all the required electronics are in the mount itself, and the iris can be controlled on the lens mount. Birger also has built in wireless. Birger uses its own collimation assembly, which Eric has stated maintains the correct FFD.


Birger for all the delays, has had a working product for a number of years, one which RED has given the OK to (I don't think Andy will need to do this), while I believe Andy's implementation is newer. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong. Birger also has I data working in the mount, but does not yet have it being recorded by the camera. I don't know if this is something Andy plans to implement.

I suspect the winner of the bulk of the market share here is going to be whoever produces the nicest user experience, once the product is delivered. It may well be the follow focus, not the mount that provides the decisive battle.
Click to expand...

I think you've summed it up very nicely.

I have to say that I'm bit scared that even if Birger ends up shipping the mounts it might take several more months to get a knob, not to mention the remote. Without these, the Birger mount isn't really any more interesting than Andy's mount. In fact Andy's mount has the advantage of letting you see what f/stop you're at on the LCD.
 
AquaVideoRed206 said:
The rules of mail order/credit card sales require shipment within 30 days and I know Erik is fully aware of this.
Click to expand...

Mike, the issus is that this 30 days has gone already. My credit card was charged August 6th and I received the invoice today. Now, I had to decide whether to inform the credit company that the money collected by Birger Engineering Inc. using my card number was not justified.

So, the situation is somewhat absurb as there is no feedback from Erik. Still, all I needed is just a piece of reliable information from Erik what is going on and I would be pleased. The obvious problem is, how to know anymore what is reliable and what isn't. Nevertheless, your post and Mike's comment is already somewhat encouraging. I'm ready and prepared to wait for the Birger mount as long there is no other option available.
 
I strongly suspect that Erik is already quite sorry he dove into this pit of asps, but dive he did. I just want a reasonably cheap and reliable wireless system to for use on a steadycam.

Stephen
 
Steven-Marc said:
if Birger ends up shipping the mounts it might take several more months to get a knob, not to mention the remote.
Click to expand...

From what I understand, the Viewfactor knob should work nicely with the Birger. (Link)

IMG_2.jpg

Which leaves us in the weird position that the knob is apparently now available, but the mount isn't. It's one of those warped Birgertime™ things.
 
Steven-Marc said:
I have to say that I'm bit scared that even if Birger ends up shipping the mounts it might take several more months to get a knob, not to mention the remote. Without these, the Birger mount isn't really any more interesting than Andy's mount. In fact Andy's mount has the advantage of letting you see what f/stop you're at on the LCD.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY ... :blush:
 
Karlgustav said:
Ok. This is how I understand things.

Andy's mount it basically a 'dumb' EOS mount with the eos pins on it, which in turn connect to a Lemo. All functions are controlled from an external box/pc/whatever. Something must be attached to make it work, even if it is a wireless transceiver. Andy's mount attaches directly to the back focus adjust, exactly like the Red/Underhall Nikon mount. I assume it maintains the correct FFD by just being as thin as possible. (Canon is 44mm, Nikkor is 46.5mm, and PL is more again).

The Birger mount on the other hand is self contained in that all the required electronics are in the mount itself, and the iris can be controlled on the lens mount. Birger also has built in wireless. Birger uses its own collimation assembly, which Eric has stated maintains the correct FFD.


Birger for all the delays, has had a working product for a number of years, one which RED has given the OK to (I don't think Andy will need to do this), while I believe Andy's implementation is newer. Please, please correct me if I'm wrong. Birger also has I data working in the mount, but does not yet have it being recorded by the camera. I don't know if this is something Andy plans to implement.

I suspect the winner of the bulk of the market share here is going to be whoever produces the nicest user experience, once the product is delivered. It may well be the follow focus, not the mount that provides the decisive battle.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
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