Birger Lens Mount Reservations

[Mark Thorpe]

Noooooo.

Noooooo.

It is Friday, is it not ???

Does Ami know what a Birger 'day' or 'week' means ;-)
The wedding plans may also run and run and ... run ;-)

Dave,
Didn't you hear? It's next week dude! :blink:

I've moved on in my desire to use my Canon glass. Going Nikon mount. It would have been too perfect a world to have expected the possibility of one set of glass for two cameras.

Hope all is well with you.

Cheers,
Mark.

 

[Joel Kaye]

What can I say. Glad I bought the Nikon mount months ago but I'm going to hold out for the Birger. Hopefully some mounts did ship but no one's posting they got one. Whatever - at this point I'm sure the Birger will suit my shooting style so I'm just going to wait until Erik or someone else figures it out.

 

[Craig Schober]

Although well understand what you try to say I'm afraid you've not quite captured what has happened. Those of us who made an early reservation got an email in August saying we are now shipping the mount, may we go on and charge your credit card. Taking the money and not shipping the mounts as promised is a .... I'll let everybody to decide what it is.

i wasn't aware that erik gave an exact shipping date for each order. i was under the impression that he only gave production completion estimates. are there any people who received the confirmation email with a date and tracking number and haven't received their item?

There's definitely a big difference in between how Jim and Erik manages their business. The point is, if there were somebody who wanted to make a fraud to the people on this forum and escape with their money, how would this person act? Certainly, whatever angle of view you take, you'll find that Jim's and RED's business style creates confidence although making simultaneously difficult predictions of the development and production of a rather complicated device. So, what about Birger's style?

up until red delivered (and even a little after that) jim was accused of being a fraud by many outside of this board and a few trolls within reduser. he added fuel to the fire by making sporadic and sometimes cryptic posts which only raised more questions. the only difference between erik's (i think he's gotten better) and jim's style is that jim can afford to in the name of marketing. i don't think erik can afford to be coy or evasive and could definitely use some assistance in communicating with customers. complaints/criticism like this is all i heard (second hand) and felt during the first 6 months of red's launch.

Again, personally I do have faith in Erik's work but do wonder what the heck has he been thinking? For instance, Why did he told me on March --the only time I called him-- that I'll get my mount in two weeks? This kind of history and promises recorded in this thread is not the best marketing weapon for his future business. Of course, Erik can still hit a home run by coming out with a first class product everybody is amazed of.

i really think the frustration we all feel stems from the fact that many of us have the cams and no lens at all. at least with the intitial purchase of the red cam, there was no missing pieces except for the whole camera itself so it's hard to get frustrated or pre-produce a movie for a camera that didn't exist until recently. like you say, i think erik will come out of this a hero and no one will remember or care about any of these delays just like most red users today.

 

[M Hsu]

wigby is the new aqua.

 

[Karl Gustav H.]

If I can add my 2 pennies worth;

Birger is not only supplying REDusers - the company has quite a wide userbase, and I suspect certain customers who they would far rather not piss off compared to individual users such as those buying mounts for RED. I know NASA have used the Birger mount in the past.

I know that is of little comfort to those still waiting for the mount, but the hell certain customers can unleash is quite astronomical! Maybe Eric has to pick the lesser of two evils.

Even if he didn't, and I have no inside knowledge, it does not change the fact that there are lots of customers outside of RED also getting their mounts as well.

Anyway, thats my take on it.

 

[M Hsu]

If I can add my 2 pennies worth;

Birger is not only supplying REDusers - the company has quite a wide userbase, and I suspect certain customers who they would far rather not piss off compared to individual users such as those buying mounts for RED. I know NASA have used the Birger mount in the past.

that's a valid point. He has bigger customers than us.

 

[Karl Gustav H.]

that's a valid point. He has bigger customers than us.

And how you deal with them (anyone, not just Eric and his team) is very different to how you deal with private customers. This isn't a criticism, just a fact of life, regardless of the merits of the policy.

 

[Lauri Kettunen]

wigby is the new aqua.

Mike, where are you? Did you already get the mount?

 

[M Hsu]

yah, aqua has one, mark crabtree has one and burning mike has one. They are the beta testers, otherwise known as the chosen ones.

 

[Steve Sanacore]

If I can add my 2 pennies worth;

Birger is not only supplying REDusers - the company has quite a wide userbase, and I suspect certain customers who they would far rather not piss off compared to individual users such as those buying mounts for RED. I know NASA have used the Birger mount in the past.

I know that is of little comfort to those still waiting for the mount, but the hell certain customers can unleash is quite astronomical! Maybe Eric has to pick the lesser of two evils.

Even if he didn't, and I have no inside knowledge, it does not change the fact that there are lots of customers outside of RED also getting their mounts as well.

Anyway, thats my take on it.

I have to admit I never thought of this scenario. It's the best and most logical explanation thus far. A small company developing a new product at the same time for many different customers could be very overwhelming.

 

[Harmonica]

Erik, do you have some sort of superiority complex?

You said that everyone in the first batch would have e-mails by Wednesday. It is Friday now. If you didn't have a chance to send out the e-mails, fine. But for you not to take thirty seconds to post an update here is just plain rude. It shows complete disregard for a community that is helping put food on your table.

If there has been some sort of emergency, then you have my apologies, but your track record isn't helping you any.

 

[David Nardini]

wigby is the new aqua.

Wigby needs to adopt the (IMHO) classic Aqua comment 'the natives are getting restless' ;-)
PS : Mark, I did get the Nikon mount ... the only thing that has kept me sane.

 

[M Hsu]

Wigby needs to adopt the (IMHO) classic Aqua comment 'the native are getting restless' ;-)
PS : Mark, I did get the Nikon mount ... the only thing that has kept me sane.

it is really sad that this thread has gone on for so long that we have our own inside jokes about the thread. I say we pass out t-shirts that say:

I followed the birger since April 07 and all I got was this stupid t-shirt.

we all hope you and amy are in good health erik.

 

[Ramesh Jai]

it is really sad that this thread has gone on for so long that we have our own inside jokes about the thread. I say we pass out t-shirts that say:

I followed the birger since April 07 and all I got was this stupid t-shirt.

we all hope you and amy are in good health erik.

LOL! I'm sure the t-shirt will sell. This really is an amazing thread. And I haven't even ordered the Erikbirger!

 

[Shawn Bannon]

I honestly don't care how important his other customers are. To send out an e-mail to update, inform and reassure the people who have trusted him and given him their money is not a lot to ask.

 

[Karl Gustav H.]

One could argue that it is a big ask when its something the company normally never has to do with its other customers who have invested money in them.

Anyway talk of trust and reassurance is all a bit unusual in a commerical setting. GM doesn't ring you up to 'reassure' you of the development of the next Corvette, after you 'trusted' them with your money after placing a deposit.

With big contractors, a twice monthly update from a sub like Birger can be considered frequent. With smaller subs an inital contract, with no further contact until delivery wouldn't be considered unusual.

This kind of silence isn't unusual and you just have to roll with it, however uncomfortable that may be. One could say that RED with the bomb squad, this forum and excellent PR have spoilt us (well you as a collective of RED users/owners). Anyway, as I said, the motor industry can be far worse - pay your deposit, followed by no contact then three years later the company is tits up and no money back for you!

Sorry if I sound like an apologist for Birger, just commenting on a fascinating set od development processes. Anyway is Jim going to shoot some test shots using the Birger and the 1200mm L series lens?

 

[M Hsu]

gustav is the new wigby

 

[Shawn Bannon]

One could argue that it is a big ask when its something the company normally never has to do with its other customers who have invested money in them.

Anyway talk of trust and reassurance is all a bit unusual in a commerical setting. GM doesn't ring you up to 'reassure' you of the development of the next Corvette, after you 'trusted' them with your money after placing a deposit.

With big contractors, a twice monthly update from a sub like Birger can be considered frequent. With smaller subs an inital contract, with no further contact until delivery wouldn't be considered unusual.

This kind of silence isn't unusual and you just have to roll with it, however uncomfortable that may be. One could say that RED with the bomb squad, this forum and excellent PR have spoilt us (well you as a collective of RED users/owners). Anyway, as I said, the motor industry can be far worse - pay your deposit, followed by no contact then three years later the company is tits up and no money back for you!

Sorry if I sound like an apologist for Birger, just commenting on a fascinating set od development processes. Anyway is Jim going to shoot some test shots using the Birger and the 1200mm L series lens?

I use to work in aerospace and trust me if you're investing big in a product you get feedback whenever you want. I definitely don't expect that here. but the last time I got an e-mail from Birger was in the beginning of July. And a simple e-mail goes a long way and protects Birger and its clients.

 

[Brian Timmons]

I too appreciate the hard work and care Birger Engineering put into this device but I agree that these rolling delivery dates are problematic. The lapses in communication only further confuse matters and this creates a lot of frustration.

We are not fan boys anxiously waiting for the release of a DVD. We are professionals with projects to film and/or businesses to run. Decisions get made based on the statements made by Birger Engineering. It would be appreciated if this was taken into consideration when ship dates are made.

I ordered on November 23, the first day the order forms went live and should be in this first batch.

If I don't receive my order soon I will be forced to move on. I have too many other decisions to make that revolve around this mount and will soon no longer have the luxury of waiting.

I ask that Birger delivers these remaining mounts very soon and maintains stronger contact with us in the future.

Brian

 

[David Nardini]

One could argue that it is a big ask when its something the company normally never has to do with its other customers who have invested money in them.

Anyway talk of trust and reassurance is all a bit unusual in a commerical setting. GM doesn't ring you up to 'reassure' you of the development of the next Corvette, after you 'trusted' them with your money after placing a deposit.

With big contractors, a twice monthly update from a sub like Birger can be considered frequent. With smaller subs an inital contract, with no further contact until delivery wouldn't be considered unusual.

This kind of silence isn't unusual and you just have to roll with it, however uncomfortable that may be. One could say that RED with the bomb squad, this forum and excellent PR have spoilt us (well you as a collective of RED users/owners). Anyway, as I said, the motor industry can be far worse - pay your deposit, followed by no contact then three years later the company is tits up and no money back for you!

Sorry if I sound like an apologist for Birger, just commenting on a fascinating set od development processes. Anyway is Jim going to shoot some test shots using the Birger and the 1200mm L series lens?

I'm sorry mate, not sure WHAT planet you are on !
When a company (GM or Birger !) emails their customer(s) to confirm the shipping address, confirms that the remaining balance of payment will be taken (and takes it), provides a provisional shipping date, then a revised one on a forum such as this ... and then falls out of the sky :angry01: how exactly is this 'acceptable' ?

The ONLY reason I trusted this solution is that Birger has done this before (with Canon) ... and appears to demonstrate forward thinking. By all accounts, he's a good chap/engineer, but hell ... what a way to go about things.

Given that all his 'forward thinking' (remapped focus range, wireless control, lens metadata capture, etc) is now months (years !) away, I suspect the competing devices are gradually (rapidly) going to eat into what could have been ...
By the time these are REAL, EPIC will be finished !!!

COMMUNICATION with us and Red is the root of all the issues folk are grumbling about ... not much else.