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Attempting to match GH4 to DRAGON (my results thus far)

Michael Tiemann

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Let me get this out of the way: the GH4 is a toy next to the DRAGON. I spent a few days playing around with its settings to see if I could make it a useful toy. Using an iterative approach, I think I've got some interesting data to report.

My iterations started with an attempt to get both cameras to agree on their rendition of a DSC Labs Chroma Du Monde image chart, first in terms of getting the waveform monitors to agree, then to get the vector scopes to agree. This led me down a relatively blind alley in which I could get the "X" charts to somewhat agree using the highly counter-intuitive approach of cranking the contrast down to -5 (flattening things out), the highlight/shadow controls to -5/+5 (putting a steep rise in the middle of the curve), selecting Cinelike-V as the best match for the vectorscopes, and then cranking the saturation down to -5. Alas, the real-world images looked like what you'd expect from a whole bunch of extreme settings.

So I tried a different approach, which was to start with Panasonic's advertised best starting point: Cinelike D, then I gently started changing contrast and highlight/shadow curves until I got a range that looked like a reasonable starting point for Resolve. Here's where I ended up:

Cinelike-D: Contrast: 0, Sharpness -3, NR -3, Saturation 0, Hue 0
Highlight -4, Shadow +1
i.Dynamic OFF
i.Resolution OFF
Master Pedestal 0
Luminance Level 16-235
WB Adjustment: Amber 2, Green 4

Initially I started shooting in Cine4K (100Mb/sec), but switched to FHD (200Mb/sec All-I) because the macroblocking on the 4K MOV files was just too damn blocky. Its the kind of thing you would never notice until you have to really tweak some values in resolve and suddenly everything looks like it's made from a mosaic of Legos, not pixels. Using FullHD, this doesn't happen.

One of the big things I noticed is that the GH4 tends to under-saturate less saturated colors and over-saturate more saturated colors. A single saturation control cannot solve this problem, but Resolve can. I created a qualifier that ramped up a desaturation effect by setting Low to 6.0, Low Soft to 12.0, and setting saturation to 25 (compared with a "normal" value of 50). This also seemed to darken the bits where I was desaturating, so I added a Gain of 1.15 to keep everything even.

The other curves I had to true up were Lift and Gamma. I set lift to -0.06, Gamma to 0.03 and left Gain alone at 1.0. That gave me a pretty consistent-looking color chart between the two cameras. But there are still some very large differences.

First and foremost, the DRAGON simply sees every color in the scene perfectly. Every tiny gradient of the samples I put in front of it are as real on the monitor as they are in my own hands. Secondly, and perhaps related, the clarity of the DRAGON's 6K image provides ample pixel coverage to properly respect all these different colors, rather than muddling them together.

With the GH4, it's obvious that its gamut is nowhere near the DRAGON's. As you can see in the attached images, I'm wearing a shirt that has lots of colors in the green->aqua->cyan->blue->lavendar range, and the GH4 just paints them all about the same color. [In a previous test I posted, they really were much more muddled together, due to a focus error. It's not quite as bad as I first thought, but look at the results and you will still see quite a large difference.] A different shirt I presented (with subtle gradations in red->orange->mustard yellow) looks similarly monochromatic. And while the GH4's 1920x1080 resolution puts the AF100's sensor to shame (not very hard to do: the AF100's sensor really shames itself), the downscaling of DRAGON to 2K DCI looks far, far sharper, and more colorful than the GH4. [Even after correcting the focusing error.]

I am by no means the greatest DIT or colorist. It could be that there are people who could make these two match far better than I. But I think my experiment shows how close--and yet how far--the GH4 is from the DRAGON, even when delivering 2K results.

To show my work, I've created a large Dropbox folder, with some sub-folders for easy browsing.

The main folder: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jnysjxmw927nhdi/AAB4XLzsjZik-drJyuVWIf5Za
Full-res ADD TIFFs: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9x6c3qimazshodu/AACUkaNvJFkGDB3pYTHWcq_2a
Full-res PNGs from GH4 Cineon exports: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/g72s43w0uuu1xo7/AABtlExxzjMx32Sl_gIxujala
In the main folder there is also a Resolve project that can connect to the media files within that folder...if you really want to download 14GB of data.

Here are five (of eight) JPGs of the images. I'll attach the remaining three in a followup. [Note that these images are from a previous version of the video test. They are not greatly changed because the focus of the DRAGON was never a problem in the test.]
 

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Here are the remaining two JPG images. Did I say there were three? There are only two.
 

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Michael, thank you for putting in this effort for everyone to see!

You've already done quite a bit of legwork, but if you have any extra time, it would be great to see some labeled side-by-side frames comparing your findings between the GH4 full-res PNGs and the DRAGON ADD Tiffs.
 
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Michael, thank you for putting in this effort for everyone to see!

You've already done quite a bit of footwork, but if you have any extra time, it would be great to see some labeled side-by-side frames comparing your findings between the GH4 full-res PNGs and the DRAGON ADD Tiffs.
+1
i'm tempted to buy one as a b cam
 
Burke,

In the process of doing the side-by-sides, I realized that I screwed my test very seriously. Every time I turn the GH4 off and back on (to save battery because I don't have an AC power adapter) it refocuses the lens to infinity. WTF!? I turned off AF so that the camera doesn't change focus on me without my knowledge, and yet it's found another way to screw me! I only got the camera last week, so I'm still pretty new with it. How frustrating!

I will have to replace all these files and do the test over again. In the mean time, here's a full-sized crop from the unfairly blurred GH4 as compared with a scaled-down version of the DRAGON:
 

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The Epic always screws my focus when I shut it off and on as well.
 
OK, here's a more fair fight. The GH4 is now in focus (as good as it gets, anyway).

Here's the 1:1 crop comparison: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ikyufd1dnyluk7a/A023_C003_0520YF.691.0000691F.png

I am re-uploading all the files so that I don't have bad data out there, and will correct the first post link info when that's done. Should all be good to go by early tomorrow morning. Sorry about the confusion!
 

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Michael, thanks for taking the time to redo all of your tests! On the bright side, at least this issue popped up now rather than on a paid shoot.

Your last example really shows the differences between the DRAGON and the GH4 - it really is stunning to look at all the color and detail that the DRAGON sees.

All in all though, the GH4 really is pretty amazing for the tiny DSLR that it is, and it looks like it really could be a valuable specialty tool to have in the arsenal.
 
hey while your at it can you compare dragon to gh4 regarding resolution? i really would love to figure out if nofilmschool botched that test or not, cuz articles like that surely aren't good advertising for red. i still think the test had some missteps to get to that conclusion and spent a fair bit of time trying to suggest where things may of gone awry. so just for my peace of mind if you wouldn't mind running tape and shooting anything, a chart, a wall, it doesn't even really matter i just wanted to verify if their results are accurate or not essentially...thank you!
 
Michael, thanks for taking the time to redo all of your tests! On the bright side, at least this issue popped up now rather than on a paid shoot.

Your last example really shows the differences between the DRAGON and the GH4 - it really is stunning to look at all the color and detail that the DRAGON sees.

All in all though, the GH4 really is pretty amazing for the tiny DSLR that it is, and it looks like it really could be a valuable specialty tool to have in the arsenal.

I just realized another way I'm not being fully fair to the GH4. I have some Blackmagic Design Hyperdeck Shuttles, so should be able to record 10-bit color instead of 8-bit color (also possibly 4:2:2 instead of 4:2:0). I don't expect that will make a really visible change, but I'll give that a run tomorrow.
 
hey while your at it can you compare dragon to gh4 regarding resolution? i really would love to figure out if nofilmschool botched that test or not, cuz articles like that surely aren't good advertising for red. i still think the test had some missteps to get to that conclusion and spent a fair bit of time trying to suggest where things may of gone awry. so just for my peace of mind if you wouldn't mind running tape and shooting anything, a chart, a wall, it doesn't even really matter i just wanted to verify if their results are accurate or not essentially...thank you!

You can grab the full-res ADD-generated TIFF files (6144x3160) and compare to the full-res 1920x1080 stills that Resolve generated from the GH4. The resolution is absolutely no contest at all. As I explained up top, I started my tests shooting 4K, but the degree of macroblocking that can be uncovered by grading makes a mess of things in another way. I don't yet have a 4K external recording device, so cannot test the clean 4K feed from the GH4. But it's still not close.
 
The uploads are finished, and the total directory size is 14GB.
 
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so your verifying that the nofilmschool test was botched somehow? that was my guess, and i tried to suggest how it may have happened but no one seemed to want to hear it and everyone accused me of being biased since i own an MX and have a Dragon en route lmfao! as stupid as it is articles like that spread misinformation and hurt camera owner ops needlessly, which is why i felt the need to try an debunk it, but no one would listen. the commenters there don't seem to know their stuff in general, i mean the thought that reds are expensive is practically laughable at this level of image quality when your mainly comparing it with Alexa...
 
so your verifying that the nofilmschool test was botched somehow? that was my guess, and i tried to suggest how it may have happened but no one seemed to want to hear it and everyone accused me of being biased since i own an MX and have a Dragon en route lmfao! as stupid as it is articles like that spread misinformation and hurt camera owner ops needlessly, which is why i felt the need to try an debunk it, but no one would listen. the commenters there don't seem to know their stuff in general, i mean the thought that reds are expensive is practically laughable at this level of image quality when your mainly comparing it with Alexa...

If you want to know the answer for yourself, you have to do the work for yourself. I downloaded the NF test files (full resolution) and I can tell you straight-away that the EPIC resolution test suffered from the fact that there was not enough depth of field to cover the scene. The flowering tree in the foreground is sharp, but the power lines and trees in the distance are not, because of depth of field. The GH4 is a 2.3x crop camera at 4K (it's 2.0 at Full HD), which provides about 3 stops more DOF than EPIC.

I give the NF guys credit for posting the source of their tests. But I don't think they did a very good job of analyzing their own results. I'm sure others are dying to tell me what a terrible mess I, too, have made in the construction of my own tests. Which is why I'm making all the original files available, too!
 
It's closer to 1.5-2 stops more DOF.

Good catch. I was thinking about the DRAGON when I posted earlier, but obviously the test was against the EPIC. EPIC does have a smaller sensor size than DRAGON, so yes, it's probably closer to 2 stops. Comparing GH4 at 4K to DRAGON at 6K is definitely more then 2 stops difference in terms of depth of field.
 
So far my test comparing the Scarlet and the GH4 are disappointing, meaning the GH4 is not getting anything near the Scarlet, except that the resolution is somewhat close, but defiantly not better as claimed by the NS test. Contrast is at least 2 stops less and pulling anything up from the shadows is simply unusable wit the GH4. I think if you have good lighting and are aiming at a hard grade (like the GH4 youtube demo films from panasonic) then you might be happy with the camera - otherwise RED still rules by far.
 
hey while your at it can you compare dragon to gh4 regarding resolution?
There is no question they botched the test. But this isn't really a resolution test either since one was recorded at 1080p and one at 6k. Even under the best of circumstances (supersampled 1080p) you're still looking at 10% of the photosites at 1080p compared to 6k. Speaking of which...

You can grab the full-res ADD-generated TIFF files (6144x3160) and compare to the full-res 1920x1080 stills that Resolve generated from the GH4. The resolution is absolutely no contest at all.

I would be interested in seeing the 4k onboard recording. If we're going to say that the Dragon has more resolution (which wouldn't be surprisingly since it has more than half as many more photosites as the GH4), we might as well at least record at the GH4's highest resolution. The macroblocking artifacts would be informative in of themselves.

The noise levels are insightful regardless, the GH4 clearly is no Sony 7S in the low light department. The Dragon isn't a terribly clean sensor but it does show itself well in this comparison. Not too shocking since Dragon has substantially more surface area to catch photons.
 
In response to the above requests, I did another run, this time with the GH4 recording at Cine4K, a Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle capturing 1920x1080 10-bit of the same image via HDMI, and the DRAGON at 6K. The folder full of TIFF files, and a README, is at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/41dp7nupvbjv5xh/AAD8rC0HAUp4KvUC3pt-2Zlya

This is what the README file says:

Files ending with _1.3.X are DRAGON files recorded at 6K, then scaled to 4096x2160

Files ending with _2.3.X are FullHD files recorded 10-bit 4:2:2 (Blackmagic Hyperdeck Shuttle), then scaled to 4096x2160

Files ending with _3.2.X are Cine4K files recorded 8-bit 4:2:0 (GH4 internal SD card), at 4096x2160 native resolution

GH4 Settings were:

Cinelike-D: Contrast: 0, Sharpness -3, NR -3, Saturation 0, Hue 0
Highlight -4, Shadow +1
i.Dynamic OFF
i.Resolution OFF
Master Pedestal 0
Luminance Level 16-235
WB Adjustment: Amber 2, Green 2
WB @ 4500K
ISO 1600

Dragon Setting were:

WB @ 4700K
Tint @ -10
ISO 1600
DragonCOLOR / RedGamma 4

In Resolve, the GH4 saturation is reduced via a qualifier with Low @ 6.0, Low Soft @ 12.0, and saturation @ 25 (compared with a "normal" value of 50). I changed my mind about whether this appeared to darken the image or not, so I removed the previous Gain and left that at unity.

The other curves I had to true up were Lift and Gamma. I set lift to -0.06, Gamma to 0.03 and left Gain alone at 1.0. That gave me a pretty consistent-looking color chart between the two cameras. But there are still some very large differences.
 
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