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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Any word on the New Epic Option?

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Michael Hastings said:
I had serious concerns about saying this at all/possible repercussions.
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I wish you had heeded those concerns somewhat Michael. While you made some good points., please remember RED is absolutely under NO OBLIGATION to even have a trade-in program. NO other camera company does, so please dont use words like UNFAIR. Subject to Change has been the Mantra - and Jim made it clear that they are still "working it out". Ive never seen them try to be unfair to anyone but themelves frankly.

Happy thanksgiving - I am extremely thankful for the RED TEAM and this VERY generous trade-in opportunity. Which needs to end as as soon as possible as logistically can only Imagine what a big brain and resource drain it is on RED.

The sooner they get to operate without that burden, the better RED service and offerings will be. And its already great. Just bumpy supply.

cheers
 
JD Holloway said:
as for 1-2-3

1) I kinda have the feeling that its going to be more like 4 -10 months before we see an assembly line Epic. Thats why this is on the table.

2) I have a feeling they would be lucky to hand assemble 10 - 20 per month.
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This is one point many are overlooking. I seriously doubt there would be more than 20-30 cameras machined and assembled before normal production begins. So this would affect very few since they will be going by number and that small a run would be gobble-gobbled up before the majority had a chance to participate. But if they make it Stage 2 replacement cams, then we all get some benefit of getting the early numbers out of the way... not to mention the benefit of them being beta testers.
 
THere is a lot we dont know here...the way I see it is RED is only trying to get cameras in the hands of the people sooner then later. Whats unfair about that? Of course in my head I see this as a way for stage II folks (like myself) to pay a couple of k more to get one sooner then later...I could be dreaming, but if this was a scenario then sign me up.
 
Bring on the EPIC PREMIUM already. $40k is a bargain!!

Just hope it's not on alpha mode...
 
Tim Whitcomb said:
I wish you had heeded those concerns somewhat Michael. While you made some good points., please remember RED is absolutely under NO OBLIGATION to even have a trade-in program. NO other camera company does, so please dont use words like UNFAIR. Subject to Change has been the Mantra - and Jim made it clear that they are still "working it out". Ive never seen them try to be unfair to anyone but themelves frankly.

Happy thanksgiving - I am extremely thankful for the RED TEAM and this VERY generous trade-in opportunity. Which needs to end as as soon as possible as logistically can only Imagine what a big brain and resource drain it is on RED.

The sooner they get to operate without that burden, the better RED service and offerings will be. And its already great. Just bumpy supply.

cheers
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Where do you get your information? Other companies have had trade-in programs.

And no RED wasn't obligated INITIALLY to offer a trade in program - although it was the most practical way to actually follow through on the "obsolescence obsolete" mantra as I think even Jim has stated (not to mention mitigating frustration about the extremely long beta program) - but once you lay out the trade-in program, and take $5000 deposits and sit on them for another six months, then yes you do have some obligations - certainly MORALLY if not legally.

I'm excited about Epic. Now I'm getting upset. Happy Thanksgiving :sad:
 
Michael Hastings said:
Where do you get your information? Other companies have had trade-in programs.

And no RED wasn't obligated INITIALLY to offer a trade in program - although it was the most practical way to actually follow through on the "obsolescence obsolete" mantra as I think even Jim has stated (not to mention mitigating frustration about the extremely long beta program) - but once you lay out the trade-in program, and take $5000 deposits and sit on them for another six months, then yes you do have some obligations - certainly MORALLY if not legally.

I'm excited about Epic. Now I'm getting upset. Happy Thanksgiving :sad:
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Michael... we are not changing our program at all. Whether we offer these machined cameras or not has NOTHING to do with the timeline or pricing of production cameras. It actually helps us prepare for production. We don't have to do this, but "unfair" seems un-warranted.

Jim
 
Again, I think we should STOP guessing prices, and ley Jim do the maths and tell us how much
 
Could be nice , I really need some cameras asap aswell... Looking at the competition is no option I'd like to take. I want the Epics, and only the Epics,
so if you could build them and ask some or way more of it, it's still up to us to decide. If the timeframe stays the same for other stages, it's still fair.

In the first place , which other company did ever give you a full refund or some possibilities except selling your stuff and get some little discount because your a loyal client?

So if Jim can come up with a really fast and good solution for those who can't wait that's fine. Only thing, they have to work , but due to the fact that we have no real information on this except some footage and so from IBC, Ted and Tonaci and some other stuff, we can't be sure. So if all major concerns and possible big bugs or trouble has been figured out already , they should definately do this!!!!! But please update us asap...
 
Make Smart Investment Decision

Make Smart Investment Decision

What does it all mean?

If money is not problem than you could pay approximately between $60,000 to $120,000 for 100% handmade EPIC.

Not a bad deal...!!!

It's a great chance if you want to be making smart investment to earn fast cash with renting EPIC right now!

Have A Happy Thanksgiving!
 
I'm conflicted about this idea. Jim, can we have a few questions? These are not 'gotcha' questions, just serious questions in my head as both an ardent Red supporter and as a professional engineer. Im dying to get this!

1. How many features has Epic completed wherein it was the Acam, used at least 10 hours a day for the duration (30+ days) of the shoot?
2. When you say 'no trade in allowance' I presume you mean no Stage 3, since Stage 2 fundamentally has no trade in. Is this correct? Would it effectively be Stage 2 + $?
3. How much extra $$ are we talking above Stage 2? Nearly every company in this field will give you free or reduced cost goods if you are a beta tester. Perhaps make the cameras the same cost but along with an understanding of rigorously contributing to these final crucial steps of the dev cycle?
4. Timeframe? Are you talking about December? January? Doing it in the next 30 days would be difficult. January is easier. And ditto to all the people asking how much this 'early' option means in shaving off the time.

Lastly, a general concern of mine is that I don't see how the camera process has been completed until production units are made and verified. Effectively you'd be selling prototypes? Once production is ironed out are these prototypes more or less robust?

Thanks! Please don't take offense to any of my questions, I only ask out of love and respect and REALLY looking forward to shooting my films on Epic :-)
 
Just out of interest (Epic is out of my league, right now)

But how would the serial number work on these models? Straight into #1, #2, #3 etc or would they have names like the early RED ONEs.

It is interesting as, I imagine, these early models will have serious collector status.
 
I say, "go for it!" . Even though I'm probably not financially able to take advantage of the deal, we are still in a free market economy, and the fact is that some have the money to take advantage of opportunities like this.

I was financially unable to get a Red in '06, even though I was at NAB. I saved up and got a high numbered camera. But, I watched the early adopters get opportunities that I could only dream of. I watched again as the MX upgrades rolled out slowly and the early R1-MX cameras were in high demand. Hopefully, Stage II should move me up in the line. There is a definite reason to pay a premium to get early access. I wouldn't begrudge that opportunity to others, just because I have yet to be successful enough to participate. With patience, and a lot of hard work, maybe I'll be able to take advantage of something like this in the future.

Really, I'm just happy to be in the game at all. The truth is that life is not fair. It's unrealistic to think that it is. Just watch animal planet... Life is meant to be a struggle!

Having said all that, i'd sure like to hear the answers to the common questions; how long until production Epics ship, how many hand made Epics could be expected before the line ramps up, and what is the full cost of a shootable hand-made Epic.

The answers to these questions may mean that someone with a high numbered camera, like me, doesn't even have a chance to get one one, even if the funds can be acquired. If so, no worries, that's just the way it is. It might actually be nice not to have to worry about it, follow along as the fortunate few dial in the workflow, bust the firmware bugs and get everything in order for us late adopters.

Like many here, I'm dying for my Epic. As long as this program doesn't delay mine, I'll do my best to be happy for those that get these. If this program goes forward, I make this appeal to the fortunate few; please share your experiences with the camera here, so that we can share your excitement, learn from your experiences and hit the ground running when we finally get ours.

I guess this just happened on a day when I'm feeling thankful for my family and everything I have in my life. As much as i envy the people that get these, I have no doubt that many envy my position as Stage II reservation holder. I hope you all have a happy thanksgiving.
 
If this "has NOTHING to do with the timeline or pricing of production cameras" then it seems clear to me that our stage-2 cameras will not be affected. In other words, this is an additional, optional line of Epic cameras. In that case, I'm all for it. I just hope I can afford it if my number comes up.
 
Just get as many working EPICs out the door, as soon as you possibly can. The rest is just noise. Seriously.

If there are limitations to the functionality or parts that aren't quite ready, just be clear and honest and open and straightforward about what these are.

All will be well.

RED has shown us a lot of love throughout this process - let's let them get this party started, as soon as possible, on terms that are favorable to them, making money from their technology and putting EPIC cameras to work sooner than later.

Can you imagine shipping EPICs by Christmas 2010 - that would kill!!!!!

Let the flags of the revolution unfurl.
 
Meryem Ersoz said:
Can you imagine shipping EPICs by Christmas 2010 - that would kill!!!!!
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That would be great!!... as long as no elves were killed or injured in the making of that deadline.:smilewinkgrin:
 
I need more information before weighing in conclusively, such as pricing, buying limits and estimated production schedule.

The timeline of production Stage 2 Epics is a bit of a concern at this point. If these jump-the-line, hand-built Epics could shorten the Stage 2 line, instead of being "in addition" to it, I would be more enthusiastic.
 
This discussion has been picked up on the other thread...

Jim
 
:closed2ur0:
 
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