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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Any Scarlet Dragons out there?

My Scarlet Dragon is currently stuck in customs but in about a week I'd be willing to post whatever testing people request if it's simple enough to do.
 
I'm picking up a Scarlet Dragon from RED HQ next week - much quicker then I originally planned.
I'll try to get something up soon, both lowlight/tungsten shots like below and HMI lit frames too.

Akin A said:
Any updates from owners? Footage, reviews?

I currently shoot on a BMCC 2.5K and I'm considering an upgrade to Scarlet Dragon. There's still very little footage out there though.
Click to expand...

IMO any RED camera is a huge upgrade compared to camera offerings from BlackMagic - remember its just not about resolution!
See the frames taken from a test scene w/ the Scarlet MX - even the old MX sensor trumps anything coming from BlackMagic.

I intend to duplicate and reshoot a similar scene setup on Scarlet Dragon for comparison purposes (as exact as I can muster).
As coincidence has it, I shot the same scene w/ a BlackMagic camera w/ the same lens and was disappointed with the results.

I have no idea where this "RED is not a low-light camera" logic comes from - looks pretty good to my eyes.

See below for stills from the MX Scarlet shoot - The first shot is candle light w/ string lights practicals in the background only:
Links to 2K frames - pretty much straight off the camera and downsized from 4K to 2K - no grading)




http://s26.postimg.org/3u30f7son/A004_C005_0817_C6_0001283_F_0000000.jpg
A004_C005_0817_C6_0001283_F_0000000.jpg


http://s26.postimg.org/9kxs6oq2f/A004_C006_0817_E2_0004630_F_0000000.jpg
A004_C006_0817_E2_0004630_F_0000000.jpg


http://s26.postimg.org/i114tex2v/A004_C008_0817_SP_0001672_F_0000000.jpg
A004_C008_0817_SP_0001672_F_0000000.jpg


http://s26.postimg.org/60fosopo7/A004_C009_081702_0002692_F_0000000.jpg
A004_C009_081702_0002692_F_0000000.jpg


http://s26.postimg.org/3ztqlliwn/A005_C004_0817_RQ_0002275_F_0000000.jpg
A005_C004_0817_RQ_0002275_F_0000000.jpg
 
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Vincent, cool, I like the composition. The images look noisy though. Is that added film grain?

Any other Scarlet Dragon owners wanna show their stuff? Still not much out there.
 
Is there something you're specifically looking for? I'll be out shooting stuff this week, I can grab some shots to share with you.
 
I'm watching you guys and happy for you all :)

Seriously though, I love some of the shots I'm seeing here.
 
Is there any place with the scarlet dragon compression numbers listed?
 
Daniel Reed said:
See below for stills from the MX Scarlet shoot - The first shot is candle light w/ string lights practicals in the background only:
Links to 2K frames - pretty much straight off the camera and downsized from 4K to 2K - no grading)
Click to expand...
Looks good, thanks.

Anton Shavlik said:
Is there something you're specifically looking for? I'll be out shooting stuff this week, I can grab some shots to share with you.
Click to expand...
+1 on Human skintones, motion.
5K/4K 24fps. Slow mo 5K WS 60fps, 4K WS 75fps. :)
(downscaled to 1080p is fine)
I've seen some Scarlet Dragon slowmo on YouTube. 3K 100fps and 2K 150fps were kinda disappointing in detail, at least from their results.

Or just any type of narrative scenes to show your work!

Thanks

sam karr said:
Is there any place with the scarlet dragon compression numbers listed?
Click to expand...
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?117616-SCARLET-DRAGON-REDCODE-OPTIONS
 
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Alright, I should be able to get some different skin tone and slow motion tests done sometime later this week, stay posted.
 
Akin A said:
Vincent, cool, I like the composition. The images look noisy though. Is that added film grain?

Any other Scarlet Dragon owners wanna show their stuff? Still not much out there.
Click to expand...

Hi Akin!

5 minute tweek in davinci and applied some grain using filmconvert so yes, the grain is intended.

Cheers!
/V
 
I have a dragon scarlet on order. Currently getting interchangeable OLPF with Low Light OLPF installed for now. Will upload tests when she arrives.

sam karr said:
Thanx Akin. Is 16:1 on dragon more usable than on MX? And is 5k on scarlet dragon as sharp as 5k on red epic mx?
Click to expand...

From my chats with BombSquad and other RED users. The Dragon compression is much better than MX. Apparently, Dragon 16:1 is comparable with MX 10:1. I will find the source of where I read this and post it up here. In regards to EPIC MX vs Scarlet Dragon. Epic can shoot as low as 4:1 compression at 5k whilst Scarlet is stuck at 7:1 compression. I leave this open to be corrected, but this is the general consensus. But, once again, as argued in my above statement, Dragon compression is seen to be less "lossly" as opposed to MX. So I would imagine Scarlet Dragon 5k at 7:1 compression to be as sharp as Epic MX 5k at 5:1. Can anyone confirm this?
 
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I've posted this in a few places here, but not this thread oddly. Shot with the Scarlet Dragon, processed with D.E.B. (but no ADD)



Funny enough, they did see it, thought it was funny, and they actually hired me! We had a shoot a week ago, it was my first paid film shoot! Not only was it my first paid gig, but to work with one of my favorite YouTube channels is quite a starting story.
 
Just received a battle tested Scarlet Dragon, so I thought I'd do a quick shot comparison with Scarlet MX, nothing as expert as Phil Holland's and others Epic tests, but maybe of some interest anyway.

I shot several brief clips today to compare Scarlet Dragon (V2 "skin" OPLF) versus MX. All were shot using same lens Canon 50mm F1.4 within about 10 minutes of each other, sunny light about 5pm. All at 800 ISO, 5600k and 1/48. I think compression was 1:8 but not certain on this.

I shot the spa part of my pool to show motion, the off white pool surroundings partly in light and the black Rode mic box in shade to give a high contrast range.

A001_C003 was Scarlet Dragon 5K. I selected f14 on the lens as at that setting no clipping per traffic lights /bar and no noise.

A001_C004 was Scarlet Dragon 4k, f14

A003_C001 was Scarlet MX 4k at f14. The histogram definitely was more to the right than on Dragon, and the traffic lights/bar indicated clipping.

A003_C002 is Scarlet MX 4k, but lens stopped down to f20, this to shift histogram to similar position as it had been with Dragon and to get rid of clipping traffic lights/bar.

Opening these in RedCine-X shows a definite color difference between the 2 cameras, maybe due to different color science?

I'm not sure how to interpret the difference in A003_C001. The white edge tiles on the inside of the spa have clearly clipped on the right of the frame when ISO is dragged way down, in the Dragon files detail remains. Perhaps this is the better highlight protection of Dragon? Or is it that Dragon, with V2 skin OPLF, is not as light sensitive as MX?

Hopefully these files are of use to redusers, I'd welcome any comments.

Dropbox link here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/he053vyv3gr9xr1/AAD-fkPqaJ0Yid3nRpObJxFEa?dl=0
 
they seem so similar. there are some small differences, but its very small
 
Ryan Hamblin said:
they seem so similar. there are some small differences, but its very small
Click to expand...

I must admit that i don't really know what to think anymore. I was able to perfectly match the dragon 5k and the stopped down 4k mx footages. The only difference I see is the larger framing on dragon. And the fact that there is one stop down on mx to avoid clipping. I was really into the scarlet dragon upgrade, then, with all the issues, into the epic upgrade, then back to dragon when i saw more footages, but now that I watch Werner's comparison footages I'm totaly lost. It would be nice to have some skin footages as well. But anyway, thanx Werner for the work.

Scarlet MX 4K:
mx1
Scarlet Dragon 4k:
dragon1

Edit:
I noticed these red artifacts on the scarlet dragon, DEB has no effect:
scarlet dragon
on MX:
scarlet mx
 
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Sam, one way or another you have to make a decision.

The Scarlet Dragon is fine I own one. It does everything an Mx Epic does & then some without the hfr. which IMO. has become passé.

So your choices are simple, upgrade to Epic MX then spend another 9.5 k to epic dragon. Or Keep Scarlet Mx, work it like a Trojan ( it still is the only viable all in one 4k system out there) then sell and buy into another system like Sony's 7 with that fantastic Sony broadcast look that doesn't do 4k raw internally. Or upgrade to Scarlet Dragon .

The choice is yours , but you need to act quickly because of the upgrade price rise and as others have hinted possible MX announcements later in the year.
 
Mike Garrick said:
Sam, one way or another you have to make a decision.

The Scarlet Dragon is fine I own one. It does everything an Mx Epic does & then some without the hfr. which IMO. has become passé.

So your choices are simple, upgrade to Epic MX then spend another 9.5 k to epic dragon. Or Keep Scarlet Mx, work it like a Trojan ( it still is the only viable all in one 4k system out there) then sell and buy into another system like Sony's 7 with that fantastic Sony broadcast look that doesn't do 4k raw internally. Or upgrade to Scarlet Dragon .

The choice is yours , but you need to act quickly because of the upgrade price rise and as others have hinted possible MX announcements later in the year.
Click to expand...

I know. Scarlet dragon is nice, but 8:1 best compression for 5k ff is turning me down a bit. And there is still issues. I agree with HFR, it's a bit cliché now. I don't really need it. But Epic has wider framing at 5k (1.3x for epic, vs 1.42x for dragon 5k), better compression, HFR. I know there is this 1st december deadline, that's why I'm trying to speed up my decision. The Epic MX upgrade is a bit scary though. Red is known for making some sudden announcement. I would be pissed off to take the epic mx route and be told that they stop the epic mx and cancel the dragon upgrade possibility. What kind of rumor is there about the MX?
 
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