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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

Ditto regarding the upgrade path for Weapon magnesium?!!

It would be great to know what the upgrade path to vista and future sensors is. I find it hard to believe that this is an EOL product.
 
BrendanLeahy said:
For you and everyone else that wants to know, this is what Jarred wrote some weeks ago in another thread:

"Vista, as you can imagine, will be top shelf. It will be an upgrade option for 6K Weapons though ( another reason for the new body ) so you have a nice upgrade path if Vista is initially out of your reach."

Remember that everything is subject to change, though.
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Which contradicts what we are hearing here. It is basically phrasing and lack of info regarding this upgrade. It would be great if Red stepped in at some point to clarify this, along with actual camera specs (new base ISO, new frame rates etc).
 
Mike Nagel said:
I'm a bit underwhelmed by the specs... fps are lower than expected... audio again only 48 Khz... no 4K Prores... no 4K out (?)...

I do like the wireless, automatic sensor cal, 3D LUTs...

Can somebody from RED clarify what the deal is with having to ship the mount in on upgrade and whether Magnesium bodies will get a sensor upgrade option in the future (whether it be 40mm 8K or true 35mm still) ?

Meaning: will the sensor > body > sensor > body > etc cycle stay intact for W Magnesium bodies ?

Thanks.
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Well Mike, I am somewhat responding to Your comment of my Redonomics thread. This weapon of self destruction arrives in Magnesium. Of course the real melt down to play the game now comes in plastic.
 
Sorry, I'm picking a fight here because I miss the old Josh don't like this new ZEB guy drawing torrid conclusions.

Also, can you define what you mean by 1%er?


Zeb B said:
Let's say both. Your point is?
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Will Keir said:
Sorry, I'm picking a fight here because I miss the old Josh don't like this new ZEB guy drawing torrid conclusions.

Also, can you define what you mean by 1%er?
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That's an invitation to a bullshit dialog better left to the comment section of YouTube little buddy ;-)
 
Peter Majtan said:
Ivan, you guys might want to have a look at this...:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?130689-WEAPON-THE-quot-WRONG-quot-IDEA-(sanity-check)
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Thanks for the reply Peter.

To be honest, what you said at this point is all speculation. It sound right, but we haven't heard a thing from Red regarding any magnesium upgrade path. We don't even have any proper specs from the camera even though they have been improved.

Until Red gives us the lowdown, all speculation both yours and mine and anybody elses is premature. I just hope this info comes before we need to pay a deposit...
 
Ivan Kovax said:
Until Red gives us the lowdown, all speculation both yours and mine and anybody elses is premature. I just hope this info comes before we need to pay a deposit...
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Should detailed specs not be released before RED takes the time to put a price up on RED.com?

Or rather Price and Specs at the same time. Detailed pricing but missing some crucial specs is a bit bizarre.
 
Donald MJ Anderson said:
Should detailed specs not be released before RED takes the time to put a price up on RED.com?

Or rather Price and Specs at the same time. Detailed pricing but missing some crucial specs is a bit bizarre.
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Yes I agree. I was trying to be polite so I can continue using the forums however ;)
 
I'm with Donald. I don't understand posting prices and accepting orders before posting all the specs and then being all ambiguous.

Post the specs and have a detailed FAQ ready and have someone update that FAQ throughout the day as questions come in. I'm sure RED can afford at least one person to do this. Somewhere along the way, the common (non fanboy) man was forgotten.

That being said, love my Epic Dragon. But BM has my attention and I'll be watching what happens in their camp over the coming years.
 
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I am a little confused why RED thought people who had to stretch financial to afford Scarlet Dragon at $9500 would suddenly have another $30,000+ burning a hole in their pocket. "Can't afford an Accord LS? Well stretch for it and then you can get a great deal on this Ferrari California."
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I am a little confused why RED thought people who had to stretch financial to afford Scarlet Dragon at $9500 would suddenly have another $30,000+ burning a hole in their pocket. "Can't afford an Accord LS? Well stretch for it and then you can get a great deal on this Ferrari California."
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Gavin I am definitely one of those guys - I fit both criteria - stretched to do the upgrade and don't have the other $30K to go farther just yet. But I don't feel cheated at all. Can't wait to get my Scarlet Dragon back and the rest will just have to take care of itself... over time. I missed getting in on RED ONE (but shot quite a bit on one). Then bought Scarlet and have watched it all evolve. I am optimistic that it all "works out."

Stay positive! :-)
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I am a little confused why RED thought people who had to stretch financial to afford Scarlet Dragon at $9500 would suddenly have another $30,000+ burning a hole in their pocket. "Can't afford an Accord LS? Well stretch for it and then you can get a great deal on this Ferrari California."
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I hope someone from RED can explain why encouragement was given to people struggling to find cash to upgrade to Dragon.

I know what the wrong reasons would be, but what are the right reasons to give such encouragement?
 
Jonas Klittmark said:
I wonder if these numbers have typos in them. A Scarlet Dragon that has been purchased for $19k ($9.5k+$9.5k) is now valued at $2.5k?

And there is mix-up of "credit is" and "price is".
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This, especially.
After today, I may be considered to be the whiny Scarlet-Dragon guy, but the valuation for the trade-in, combined with the 10 week window for upgrading to Epic has got me baffled.
Somehow it's not penciling out...
 
Just to be clear...I understand the numbers may not be exact, but ball park here.

My 20-25K Epic + the $9,500 dragon upgrade = roughly 35K --(NOW) worth a trade in value of 15K, plus another 20K+ something to upgrade to Weapon...

So I will in effect be paying a total of 50-55K for the Weapon which is going to retail for around 35K on the site?

I haven't owned the Dragon, let alone the MX for even a year. I must be mistaking something...
 
I am one of the Scarlet owners who upgraded to Dragon just before NAB. I had saved a bit of cash up before hand to hopefully then go through to Weapon and then paid the 5000 for the upgrade yesterday when it went up. I did this because I know I will have enough work coming in to justify it over the coming year. However, since thinking on it pretty heavily over the last 24 hours, I have now changed my mind. I have realised that a great option for me (and for Scarlet owners) is the Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon path. For starters, the Epic Dragon is still a fantastic camera and something that will bring in a bucket load more work for me and is within financial reach right now. Given that as a Scarlet user, we will be amongst the last people to get our cameras in to be upgraded, we are not looking at actually getting Weapon's in our hands until the end of the year (if Dragon was anything to go by). So by going the route of the Dragon Epic for now, Ill now have a great camera in the next two weeks rather than having to wait for the Weapon equivalent at the end of the year - one which will still give me significant credit in the RED store when I do choose to go through with the upgrade after NAB. In other words, although I have put more an outlay (9500), it means I will have no money in escrow, am able to pay less down the line (which works better for now) and have a great camera in the present from which I can earn more than I would if I were waiting on Weapon with the Scarlet. With this thinking, I have gone from being concerned to pretty satisfied with what the future holds!
 
Douglas Quill said:
...I must be mistaking something...
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Yes you are. You are omitting all the income you were able to generate over the years with your camera - never mind gaining all that experience, work and clients portfolio, etc...

:sifone: Peter
 
Gavin Greenwalt said:
I am a little confused why RED thought people who had to stretch financial to afford Scarlet Dragon at $9500 would suddenly have another $30,000+ burning a hole in their pocket. "Can't afford an Accord LS? Well stretch for it and then you can get a great deal on this Ferrari California."
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Have to be honest, have been wondering much the same myself.

That said, they were very generous in dropping the upgrade cost BACK to 9500. And in allowing Scarlet Dragon owners to upgrade to Epic Dragon.

Both of those upgrade paths are a major success IMHO - clearly aimed at the indie filmmakers that have been their core audience.

Weapon on the other hand looks like their elite line of cameras - a line almost designed for rental houses (hence the incredibly usability, ergonomics, etc).

The "engine" for Weapon is the same as the "engine" in Epic Dragon. The 20K is clearly going for a radically improved "chassis".

But for most owner/ops who have learned to live with the old "car", the upgrade may not really improve their life that much, though it would certainly set them back quite a bit.

The Vista Vision sensor is appealing...but many Red owners wont be able to afford that.

Also, RED seems to have temporarily lost sight of one of their KEY selling points - they are a company making cameras INDIE filmmakers can afford, and can always upgrade to.

At 35K, 50K, and 70K...the Weapon starts to break away from that - much more expensive than we have been accustomed to (20K to upgrade to the LOWEST tier Weapon?).

Also, Magnesium Weapon appears at first glance to be EOL - is it upgradeable to Carbon? And later Vista?

Again, the Weapon program, to me, seems aimed at rental houses, feature films, and BROADCAST SCRIPTED TV. Basically - its "aimed" at ARRI.

RED wants to target them, and all the hundreds of shows currently shooting PRORES for broadcast. That's the final frontier. I think that's even the reasoning behind the name - they are "taking aim" at a new market, not the indie fimmakers, but a much larger target: the network fimmakers....the STUDIOS.

Weapon is the camera that finally takes on Alexa head on. And to that end...they've done an amazing job.

When you compare a Weapon Carbon to any flavor of "uprezzed" Alexa, the Alexa, for the first time, starts to really not stack up.

That said - RED has, perhaps slightly inadvertently, left a portion of their core audience out on the in cold, simply by charging prices they can't afford.

Knowing RED...they'll find a way to regain this cores trust. But for now...some confusion lingers, understandably.

But looking at the long-term repercussions of this, I'll say there's a good chance Weapon was the moment RED really regained some market share vs Arri.

These wont be gains most owner ops will see. This is a battle on another frontier.

But knowing RED...they'll find a way to remember their core audience, and make it eventually worth their while too...it's in RED's blood..after all...to promote the underdog, the indie filmmaker, to disrupt...at all levels...high...and low.
 
Nick Morrison said:
knowing RED...they'll find a way to remember their core audience, and make it eventually worth their while too...it's in RED's blood..after all...to promote the underdog, the indie filmmaker, to disrupt...at all levels...high...and low.
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Well put Nick.

I completely agree.
While this VVeapon may not be for everyone, Red will no doubt offer different VVeapons down the road.
 
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