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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

This Carbon Weapon is exactly the camera I've been waiting for to use with aerial work with semi-heavy glass (i.e. Cooke miniS4 18mm (1.3kg)). It's lighter than Dragon, and even lighter with the new Jetpack to power it on a drone. Pricing is inline what I expecteted, and the design is finially right in my opinion.

I really expected higher frame rates than those announced, but acceptable. Problem is the price is creeping out of my price range, especially with this poor Canadian dollar.
 
Adam Johnson said:
I purchased a brand new Dragon X in December and it is already obsolete and worth much less. That is technology for yah. Guess I'll go F myself now lol
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Regardless of technological advances I still think someone who knows how to make movies will be able to still make an awesome movie with a Dragon 10yrs from now.
 
I am really curious about the mounts? Do we not get to keep our Epic mounts when we trade in? Do Epic mounts work on Weapon? is the only option really to have to buy a new one at $3500? Did i miss a thread on this somewhere?
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
yes old Ti PL mounts works.That mount is Magnesium one.
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Thats good new. Whats so cool about the MG mount and why is it so expensive? I guess I'm a little naive here, I thought Ti was pretty awesome stuff.
 
Weapon upgrade

Weapon upgrade

Yup, food for thought for RDC!

Milan S. said:
i don't even think there's an improvement in ergonomics, no more side handle and being able to power the camera with Redvolts for small setups without buying a bulky rear module for over $4k.

It's essentially the same camera. No significant bump in frame rates is a big downer for me personally.

I can see a lot of owner operators and independent filmmakers who made up most of the Red market, dropping out from the upgrade path and perhaps abandoning Red platform all together.

I really don't see where Red is going with this. They are losing the independents, while high end market is still being dominated by ARRI.
I'm confused.
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Where are the specs (weight, dimensions, frame rates, battery duration, etc.)? Or have I missed one of the zillions of posts?
 
I really wish somebody with a voice would chime in on the "obsolesce obsolete" that has been and still is Red's motto. I bought into Red because of their modularity system that was supposed to make "obsolesce obsolete." That fell through with the Red ONE (for good and practical reasons) and replaced with a system that was vastly improved and seemed like such a perfect fit. Epic. Without hesitation I jumped on-board with that upgrade. Now only three years later (two years for me) Red is principally making the Epic obsolete. I love my Epic. I'm shooting two back to back films with it and the results are spectacular. And I really hoped, and still do hope, to be making pictures with it for a long time. But it appears Red is going to abandon Epic and replace it with Weapon. And if that happens, soon they will cease servicing the Epic or make it cost prohibitive to make the inevitable repairs. What happened with making Epic a modularly upgradable system thus rendering obsolesce obsolete?
 
Mark Andersen said:
Thats good new. Whats so cool about the MG mount and why is it so expensive? I guess I'm a little naive here, I thought Ti was pretty awesome stuff.
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Magnesium on its own is only 40% the weight of titanium. You can also burn it for warmth.
 
On the RED.com website there are no weight, nor dimensions specifications...both of which would be interesting to know....
 
Red just created a luxury model. All manufacturers do it, Heck Apple has a $10,000 iWatch. I like the new model and I admit that I jumped on it with an upgrade on one of my cameras, but the others will stay put for now and will still generate great images. Its the little bells and whistles that I love, Wifi, compactness, less cables (potentially) weight, less compression (although I don't know how much yet) microphones, ProRes, etc. Sometimes you just want to drive a BMW, even though a Toyota will do the same job. Yeah, I treated myself a bit today, but I still didn't go for the Aston Martin, I can't afford the CF and the 8K at this point.
 
It also isn't the first luxury model either, with the M, and the CF and whatnot...
 
Up until now I thought I understood the concept of Obsolescence obsolete. The idea that you make an investment in a piece of equipment and then later every year or every other year, you pay a premium to keep getting the latest technology, instead of buying a whole new system. Up until now, I have exclusively shot on red since the day I've got my Redone. And I have been able to keep up with what I believe is the best camera system in the world. The redone to EPIC-X upgrade was amazing. I know that probably that was a one in a life time deal, but I felt great to be a part of the red family and so proud that I jumped into the Redone. Then the Dragon upgrade came along. I felt it was a bit high, comparing to what the MX upgrade was, but the image is amazing and some more extras, so I went along as I felt it was a good deal.

But this upgrade with all the information I have so far, it feels more like buying a new camera than an upgrade. Aside from the obvious differences, I start to feel that this upgrade is more like what canon and sony does. I still think Red has its edge offering the credit towards accessories but you also get accessories that you don't need (XL module is of no use to me, itd go straight to ebay) etc... But definitively the gap starts getting closer from buying a new camera, like c300, and a year later, you go "Oh, Fu$%^, a new one that does just a little more... Ok let me put my C300 on ebay and get the C310 or whatever.

But red avoids you the trouble from going into ebay and gives you some extra goodies, but it really starts to feel more like that, than being in a loyal group that with a fair premium you can be on the top. When you look at the upgrades so far, they've been impressive. Redone to Epic!. But Epic to Weapon... in my numbers is not that impressive, (don't get me wrong, proress, the for design being the sexiest camera on market...) but it's twice the price of what we payed from going from redone to epic!!. And also with the current doubt that even going into the weapon system, you might not be able to get the 8K upgrade 6 months later! unless you go into Carbon Fiber, which that baffles me.

I understand paying a premium for having less weight, or pay for the M so you get it faster and cut the line, but forcing customers into getting the most expensive options just so you can have the best resolution, that I don't understand it.

And of course, I know the sentence "You don't have to upgrade" "nobody is forcing you to upgrade" I agree, and probably I won't. I'm sure making those weapon bodies aren't cheap. And I'm sure they'll cost more than what I'd like the upgrade price to be for sure, but then is really Obsolescence Obsolete when you need to put this amount of cash to be in the latest game?
 
red one -> red one mx was an upgrade.. i skipped it because i knew the mx was coming in the form of the epic mx

red one mx-> epic x was more of a sideways step IMO , yes, higher data rates and framerates..more of the sensor getting used..but if id known i could have picked a $4k r1 mx body after the upgrades (ie, battletested).. i might have skipped it

ps, i did pick up a r1mx body for $4k
 
BrendanLeahy said:
I suppose a good analogy would be thinking of this in terms of buying a car. You get use out of it, but eventually the car wears down. Even if it's still getting you from A to B, there's a point where pouring money into the vehicle to keep it running becomes more expensive than selling it and buying a new one - something with better fuel economy, trunk space, all the bells and whistles. (If I think of a much better analogy here, I'll definitely use it hah!)

I'm not saying that owning a Scarlet-MX for three years is worth nothing, but OTOH, I know you and many other owners just paid $9,500 to make the jump to Scarlet-Dragon so you could upgrade to Weapon when ready. It seems terrible that the company officially declares a Scarlet-Dragon at $14.5k new to be only worth a mere $5k on that trade-in, regardless of it being used for a few minutes or a few years. You could have essentially used that $9,500 as a deposit on the Weapon body, then continued working with your Scarlet-MX.

I'm definitely not attacking you for the decision you and others made, Terry - I'm just very annoyed to see that RED talked about this path for Scarlet owners, then seemingly shafted them.

At the very least, you have an awesome Dragon sensor now for the Scarlet! :)
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I do think you should think of a better analogy than a car because you are making my point. I am not sure how many cars you have owned in your life but if you bought them thinking they were going to keep their value, I am guessing you were sorely disappointed. At the same time, ownership of that car had benefits - taking the bus is not free, nor all that convenient, either. It sounds an awful lot like you are advocating the following scenario:

1) Set aside the amount of money for a new camera; let's say $34,500.
2) Invest this money in the stock market for 10 or so years.
3) Hop that you get the historical average return on your investment of about 7% annually.
4) Take your $68,000 (assuming you didn't have to pay any taxes on the return) to the RED store.
5) Hope that the equivalent RED camera costs less than what you have.
6) Any positive difference (if there actually is one) is what your strategy saved you.

Oh, and make sure you account for all the rentals in the meanwhile. Unless, of course, you just decided to "sit it out" and not actually shoot anything with a camera for the 10 year period.

:-)
 
Alex Kiritz said:
Magnesium on its own is only 40% the weight of titanium. You can also burn it for warmth.
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It's also what Canon, Nikon etc use for their camera bodies. Standard stuff - easy to die cast
 
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