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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Announcing WEAPON DRAGON 6k Magnesium

Jarred Land said:
The Carbon can do 120fps PROres instead of Weapon MG 60fps PROres, and yes, Carbon can do 8k
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...anyway my point is that spending big money on CF casing is clearly not what most of your customers have chosen in the past, so it feels like there's a toll being paid here for a fancy casing that has nothing to do with what the boards are inside the camera.
 
Rolf Kestermann said:
Well Mike, I am somewhat responding to Your comment of my Redonomics thread. This weapon of self destruction arrives in Magnesium. Of course the real melt down to play the game now comes in plastic.
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Rolf !!! hahahaha u've been lurking in the shadows, waiting for ur revenge !

Well, I got 2 things to say:

(1) touche, touche.... in hindsight u are right, so u either got lucky, or...

(2) u knew the weapon details 6 weeks ago and u didn't share with ur reduser brothers !!! ;-)))

Honestly, if this was a M->MX or MX->Dragon upgrade situation u'd be wrong IMO (which was what the answers were based on), but I agree, so far I see nothing that would entice me to upgrade, and I was ready to go... but I do scripted content only and I absolutely subscribe to the RAW workflow.

I'm surprised by the price for the "train-peeps", I'm surprised by the actual specs b/c RED usually over-delivers, and I still need some clarification on a few things in regards to the future of the various RED camera paths, the next sensor generation after Weapon...

I'm also surprised at 40mm 8K... I would have preferred 7.x K in 36mm... I don't wanna constantly crop vignettes on the few FF cine glass options that there are, and obviously deal with the unnecessary extra amount of data (of the cropped pixel).

The peeps that adhered to the "last call" push to "ensure" u stay on the upgrade path are getting hammered IMO....

having said that, a lot of times in the past RED has looked at feedback and then offered compromises or friendlier solutions - that is a fact. I'm sure they are doing this now, u can see in this thread there are quite a few peeps who would like to stay on the train (just for the sake of the upgrade path, not b/c of Weapon necessarily) but it doesn't make sense financially or what the new cam offers...

On a business side, I would not "forget" the high-end indie guys, b/c that plays right into the cards of at least 3 other manufacturer...

This situation is quite interesting... so as a few others have stated, it is actually "not so bad" the cam is underwhelming (to some) and the upgrade-path is too expensive... because otherwise I'd have upgraded to a cam that I actually do not (necessarily) need just to stay on the train... In a year or two, all these peeps who did not upgrade to W will look for a new cam... Weapon is whole different eco system, so buying into Weapon at that point is the same thing as buying into Arri or Sony or anybody else out there, so now way more peeps will consider jumping ship...

I have a feeling while I type this, Jarred is already working on another announcement that will keep everybody on board...... ;-)
 
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How much lighter is the weapon compared to Dragon? I see some 1/4 - 20 holes on top of the body, this makes the top plate not necessary? Looks like we lost a fan but became cooler? How'd you do that? Heat sinks? Would that add weight?

Is it possible to get a picture of the top of this beast?
 
Will Keir said:
How much lighter is the weapon compared to Dragon? I see some 1/4 - 20 holes on top of the body, this makes the top plate not necessary? Looks like we lost a fan but became cooler? How'd you do that? Heat sinks? Would that add weight?

Is it possible to get a picture of the top of this beast?
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Top plate is built in. Carbon Weapon I believe is 4lbs. No more fans in front, so much more quiet.
 
Mark Pugh said:
My point is that spending big money on CF casing is clearly not what most of your customers have chosen in the past, so it feels like there's a toll being paid here for something that has nothing to do with which boards are inside.
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I dont think I understand what you are saying. The CF has much more processing. It can do 8K. It also comes with the Magnesium PL mount as well as a Carbon Fiber sidekick that The MG does not.
 
Jarred Land said:
I dont think I understand what you are saying. The CF has much more processing. It can do 8K. It also comes with the Magnesium PL mount as well as a Carbon Fiber sidekick that The MG does not.
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I'm just saying that I'm guessing some people would like to save money on the casing.
 
Jarred Land said:
I dont think I understand what you are saying. The CF has much more processing. It can do 8K. It also comes with the Magnesium PL mount as well as a Carbon Fiber sidekick that The MG does not.
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I think he is asking why the same internal boards from the CF version could not be available in the MG casing as well given the same size and shape between the two Weapons.
Basically whether the CF casing itself (not including the internal boards) offers any benefits over MG...
 
I am still waiting on the Weapon Dragon Wood announcement. The one that is machined out of wood and is in anyones price range.
Come on Jarred, the suspense is killing us. ; )
 
Mark Pugh said:
I'm pretty sure the CF casing offers no special benefits regarding frame rates or sensor sizes, etc so I'm wondering why we have to pay for that material.
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My guess is the the vast majority of the cost difference is down to the boards inside - not the CF casing. MG machining is not much cheaper...
I think that the CF casing was simply chosen to clearly differentiate between the two tiers of otherwise identically looking cameras...

Just my two yen...

:sifone: Peter
 
Mark Pugh said:
I'm pretty sure the CF casing offers no special benefits regarding frame rates or sensor sizes, etc so I'm wondering why we have to pay for that material.
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They're saying there's extra processing power in the CF Weapon.

Jarred Land said:
Carbon is not just casing this time. It has faster chips in it, just like the Epic has faster chips than the Scarlet.

That is why the Weapon Carbon can do 33x33x33 3D Luts vs the Weapon MG 17x17x17 3D luts, The Carbon can do 120fps PROres instead of Weapon MG 60fps PROres, and yes, Carbon can do 8k instead of the MG 6K.
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So the MG Weapon is like the new Scarlet, I suppose.
 
Mark Pugh said:
I'm just saying that I'm guessing some people would like to save money on the casing.
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Ah Now I get you. Remember the Magnesium Weapon is made of Magnesium and not Aluminum like the Epic/Scarlet, The Magnesium is a more expensive process for us so the spread isn't as big as it was between the Aluminum and Carbon Fiber of the Epic.

To put it in perspective, the current Magnesium PL mount for the Epic is $3500, the Titanium PL mount is $2000.
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Ok. I did the math as anybody else here. 19k plus media, plus modules end up easily at 27k. That's much to much for the possibility to record ProRes proxies. Vista/FF/8K is nice for still photographers but I shoot exclusively on PL glas and S35mm.

Guess Epic Dragon is the final station of my Red trip. Loved that trip, was a interesting bumpy road!

Thanks for the journey!

Hans
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Interesting to hear that from you.
 
From another thread "7. Now Weapon. Everything better still. 6K and 8K. 16+ stops. 15 bit color. High frame rates."
Can someone clarify the difference between epic dragon and weapon regarding DR and color? Are they the same? Is there some improvement?
 
Jarred Land said:
Ah Now I get you. Remember the Magnesium Weapon is made of Magnesium and not Aluminum like the Epic/Scarlet, The Magnesium is a more expensive process for us so the spread isn't as big as it was between the Aluminum and Carbon Fiber of the Epic.

To put it in perspective, the current Magnesium PL mount for the Epic is $3500, the Titanium PL mount is $2000.
Click to expand...

Is there going to be an aluminum Weapon? If not, could you explain?
 
sam karr said:
From another thread "7. Now Weapon. Everything better still. 6K and 8K. 16+ stops. 15 bit color. High frame rates."
Can someone clarify the difference between epic dragon and weapon regarding DR and color? Are they the same? Is there some improvement?
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Weapon Dragon is aprox. half a stop better in the low end than Epic Dragon. This is from the new processing.
 
Jarred Land said:
Ah Now I get you. Remember the Magnesium Weapon is made of Magnesium and not Aluminum like the Epic/Scarlet, The Magnesium is a more expensive process for us so the spread isn't as big as it was between the Aluminum and Carbon Fiber of the Epic.

To put it in perspective, the current Magnesium PL mount for the Epic is $3500, the Titanium PL mount is $2000.
Click to expand...

That puts up my question even more.. why there is no Aluminium Weapon with the full boards in it (like in the CF).. for many people (me included) the huge additional cost of CF or even MG is not feasable.. a bigger motor inside is a whole other story..
 
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