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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All the Epic/Dragon Vs. Alexa/Sony threads are belong to us...

Matt Ryan said:
...
Here's an idea, while you wait for Dragon why not shoot the MX and XT side by side and expose them identically. Then post your results... I can bet you MX will clip the highlights but have less noise on the low end and Alexa will retain the highlights but be noisier than MX on the low end. Give it a try. I'm not saying Alexa is noisy, it just depends on exposure and the cameras noise floor.
Click to expand...

Matt, I don't doubt that the Dragon may be cleaner than the Alexa. But every test that I've seen, including those by Geoff Boyle, and every DP I've spoken to who's shot both has said that the Alexa has cleaner blacks than the MX sensor Reds.
 
I just plowed through all 67 pages of this thread, for some inexplicable reason… And I just have to say that I’m pretty disappointed in the results posted here.

Before I get attacked or banned (I sincerely wish that one didn’t have to include that plea before each post on this forum) I’m a Red One early adopter, current Epic MX owner, and I don’t say these things out of anger or malice or support other cameras or companies. I’m not a Red apologist nor an ARRI fanboy.

I just want tools that do what they are supposed to do. Particularly if I’m expected to purchase them in advance and based on specs and claims alone.

If I were a carpenter and I bought a mitre saw that claimed to cut through 4x4s, I’d be pretty upset if when, after having paid for the saw several months prior and then finally taking delivery of it, it could only cut 3/4 of the way through said 4x4.

And if other people who used the saw or the manufacturer of the saw then said to me in response to my disappointment, “well it DOES cut through a 4x4, you just have to flip it over after the first cut and make another pass”, that would only add to my frustration.

I know that every company has to market their products to get customers through the doors. I get it. But whether it’s a mop or a camera, when the results start coming back in from the unbiased users and testers of these products, and they don’t match the claims or what was on the spec sheets, I become very cautious and skeptical of that manufacturer.

Just tell us what it can do, and then show us. If it can’t do it, please don’t say it can. That’s all.
 
Paris Remillard said:
I just plowed through all 67 pages of this thread, for some inexplicable reason… And I just have to say that I’m pretty disappointed in the results posted here.

Before I get attacked or banned (I sincerely wish that one didn’t have to include that plea before each post on this forum) I’m a Red One early adopter, current Epic MX owner, and I don’t say these things out of anger or malice or support other cameras or companies. I’m not a Red apologist nor an ARRI fanboy.

I just want tools that do what they are supposed to do. Particularly if I’m expected to purchase them in advance and based on specs and claims alone.

If I were a carpenter and I bought a mitre saw that claimed to cut through 4x4s, I’d be pretty upset if when, after having paid for the saw several months prior and then finally taking delivery of it, it could only cut 3/4 of the way through said 4x4.

And if other people who used the saw or the manufacturer of the saw then said to me in response to my disappointment, “well it DOES cut through a 4x4, you just have to flip it over after the first cut and make another pass”, that would only add to my frustration.

I know that every company has to market their products to get customers through the doors. I get it. But whether it’s a mop or a camera, when the results start coming back in from the unbiased users and testers of these products, and they don’t match the claims or what was on the spec sheets, I become very cautious and skeptical of that manufacturer.

Just tell us what it can do, and then show us. If it can’t do it, please don’t say it can. That’s all.
Click to expand...



sorry, but what would you be disappointed?
 
I don't understand. Dragon image quality is equal or superior to Alexa except its:

1) 6K resolution vs 2.8
2) 1/3 physical size/weight
3) Only $9000 upgrade.

For the price, I think Dragon upgrade could be one of best deals in Hollywood cinema. And may likely remain that way for a quite a while. Try and remember an Alexa is $50-80K.
 
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For the sake of accuracy, Alexa XT records on board RAW, has open gate mode with 3414 x 2198, and has internal ND's.

For around $80K.
 
Hrvoje Simic said:
For the sake of accuracy, Alexa XT records on board RAW, has open gate mode with 3414 x 2198, and has internal ND's.

For around $80K.
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Jupp and RED maybe records more pixels but XT captures more data, whats better is for each and every one to judge. But for sure I think for some cases a lot of data and not so many pixels might be better than more but compressed pixels, but for most part I actually think the opposite, some compression does not hurt that bad and large pixel count is great... But for a fact XT and the codec mag's capture more data per time. Not so much more to say about that. Wish it was opposite. :(

Side note... Did you know that Sony convinced Netflix that no Alexa cameras or any cameras shooting below 4k are aloud for Netflix productions. I guess it's Sony trying to push the F55 but I actually think it will turn out to be much more of a RED/ dragon promotion than anything. So does Jarred have to buy the Sony guys beer at NAB now? lol.
 
I just bought a full XT and believe me its more than $80k i just paid $140k AUD which includes 10% GST
 
Because of the professional level of this two cameras, I really think it´s a matter of DOF skills. Alexa is easier?. Red is smaller?. You have to know both machines well, and consider the practical use. I need Epic because of portability. And don´t forget the extra grands!. Red rocks anyway, 2014 is just one year.
 
Kemalettin Sert said:
any F65 vs Dragon test?
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we were supposed to have an F65 @ Bristol.
It did not show up.

I am sure many have tested these, but at least around here, the F65 is not really a relevant alternative.
That may be different on other parts and other markets.

Practically it is the Dragon/Alexa, and F55/C500/Blackmagic (in that order)

The F55 is said to be modelled in large on the F65, if that is any hunch to go by.


Are there a lot of F65s at work in your backyard?

G
 
Gunleik Groven said:
we were supposed to have an F65 @ Bristol.
It did not show up.

I am sure many have tested these, but at least around here, the F65 is not really a relevant alternative.
That may be different on other parts and other markets.

Practically it is the Dragon/Alexa, and F55/C500/Blackmagic (in that order)

The F55 is said to be modelled in large on the F65, if that is any hunch to go by.


Are there a lot of F65s at work in your backyard?

G
Click to expand...
not too many in Turkey.Only few supplied by Sony to fellow filmmakers like Palme d'Or winner Nuri Bilge (sponsored by Sony) and Reha Erdem.Another rental company in here owns 2 F65.not much seeing those on the field
might go there and test it with dragon maybe this week.
 
Björn Benckert said:
Jupp and RED maybe records more pixels but XT captures more data, whats better is for each and every one to judge. But for sure I think for some cases a lot of data and not so many pixels might be better than more but compressed pixels, but for most part I actually think the opposite, some compression does not hurt that bad and large pixel count is great... But for a fact XT and the codec mag's capture more data per time. Not so much more to say about that. Wish it was opposite. :(

Side note... Did you know that Sony convinced Netflix that no Alexa cameras or any cameras shooting below 4k are aloud for Netflix productions. I guess it's Sony trying to push the F55 but I actually think it will turn out to be much more of a RED/ dragon promotion than anything. So does Jarred have to buy the Sony guys beer at NAB now? lol.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Orange Is The New Black just started production this month, it's shooting Alexa (sxs)..
 
Ryan Hamblin said:
To be honest on a 4k display the 6k of dragon seems to not gain a very noticeable amount of sharpness or detail. Anyone else seeing this?
Click to expand...

If you downsample the 6K Dragon down to 5K and compare to MX you will see there is a bit more detail in Dragon. Harder to tell at 4K, but the Dragon overall is more "creamy/Alexa Like" than MX so the apparent sharpness is almost identical. To me it's more than sharp enough, just not a huge difference from MX like we might have expected.

Lighter.jpg

100% Crop:
Lighter100.jpg


DiopterEyelash.jpg

100% Crop:
Eyelash100.jpg
 
I would simply look at 6K over 5K giving you the ability to punch in a little bit more while retaining a true 4k resolution. It's extra gravy and the extra resolution is great for photographers printing big posters, advertisements, etc.
 
I was saying in comparison with the 3k arri file there is negligible difference to my eyes
 
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