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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

All quiet on the (RED)western front ...

If you really need prores UHD shoot ursa mini? I think the point of red's implementation of prores is to have edit ready files to then do an online color grade with the original RAW files. I could be wrong about this, and I do somewhat agree with you all versions of weapon should probably have a UHD option... even if proxy. RED most likely though has a grand vision of how it will play out and we will just have to see how they guide us for red centric shoots
 
Ryan Hamblin said:
If you really need prores UHD shoot ursa mini? I think the point of red's implementation of prores is to have edit ready files to then do an online color grade with the original RAW files. I could be wrong about this, and I do somewhat agree with you all versions of weapon should probably have a UHD option... even if proxy. RED most likely though has a grand vision of how it will play out and we will just have to see how they guide us for red centric shoots
Click to expand...

For the proxy, I'm wondering how many people will use a 2K Pro-Res Proxy. IMO, not many. Right now, I have an FS7 and everything is shot 4K with an HD finish. In the HD timeline, we very often crop in, repo the image, etc... With 2K Proxy, the scaling would be different than the standard 5K or 6K Weapon footage when the Pro-Res is replaced, so I'm wondering when you replace the Proxy footage with the real footage, wouldn't your crops, scales, push-ins be totally off and require a redo?
 
Gene Sung said:
For the proxy, I'm wondering how many people will use a 2K Pro-Res Proxy. IMO, not many. Right now, I have an FS7 and everything is shot 4K with an HD finish. In the HD timeline, we very often crop in, repo the image, etc... With 2K Proxy, the scaling would be different than the standard 5K or 6K Weapon footage when the Pro-Res is replaced, so I'm wondering when you replace the Proxy footage with the real footage, wouldn't your crops, scales, push-ins be totally off and require a redo?
Click to expand...

If you conform to say Resolve, your repositioning and crops will be right, even when conforming from a scaled proxy.
 
Gene Sung said:
For the proxy, I'm wondering how many people will use a 2K Pro-Res Proxy. IMO, not many. Right now, I have an FS7 and everything is shot 4K with an HD finish. In the HD timeline, we very often crop in, repo the image, etc... With 2K Proxy, the scaling would be different than the standard 5K or 6K Weapon footage when the Pro-Res is replaced, so I'm wondering when you replace the Proxy footage with the real footage, wouldn't your crops, scales, push-ins be totally off and require a redo?
Click to expand...

When conforming HD proxies in Resolve (coming from premiere pro, with "scale to frame size" ticked), to original R3D's, the crops/scales/pushes are all perfectly maintained.
 
Justin Campos said:
When conforming HD proxies in Resolve (coming from premiere pro, with "scale to frame size" ticked), to original R3D's, the crops/scales/pushes are all perfectly maintained.
Click to expand...

That's great, very useful. Thanks for the info.
 
A quick backtrack to LDS... I would perhaps think that the reason for not including LDS in the first place, would be connected to Reds war with ARRI, or ARRI's war with Red.

If it's now fixable. Please let us upgrade our PL-mounts to also have LDS connectors. Throwing in another 2000 USD per camera for the extra connector seems unreasonable, but maybe an upgrade at a more modest price. I guess it would be possible to put exciting PL-mounts into a CNC machine and add room for the extra connector?

To be honest, it seems a bit absurd for any professional cinema camera, not to feature both i/interface and LDS.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
A quick backtrack to LDS... I would perhaps think that the reason for not including LDS in the first place, would be connected to Reds war with ARRI, or ARRI's war with Red.

If it's now fixable. Please let us upgrade our PL-mounts to also have LDS connectors. Throwing in another 2000 USD per camera for the extra connector seems unreasonable, but maybe an upgrade at a more modest price. I guess it would be possible to put exciting PL-mounts into a CNC machine and add room for the extra connector?

To be honest, it seems a bit absurd for any professional cinema camera, not to feature both i/interface and LDS.
Click to expand...

Jon, you might thing it is absurd but so are your assumptions on both counts.

It has nothing to do with ARRI. It has to do with what our customers ask us for.

And If it was just putting PL mounts inside a vice and machining extra holes we wouldn't be having this discussion. Our cameras use smart mounts, which means there are electronics and custom boards inside every mount, and to add LDS we need to not only make new mechanicals, but make all new boards and flex cables and all the electrical and mechanical engineering that comes with it.
 
I think at some point customers would love to see it come to market if possible and perhaps some of us misjudged the reasoning behind its not being an option. Even if it cost a lot or could not be an update for existing mounts surely people would want the products who already invested in smart glass. If one day it's development starts I think some would want it, thx
 
Ps I been encoding mpeg2s for distribution of major shows and it's all laid to HDcam so I think some of this depends if it's tv or film Cuz these guys seem happy with 1080 prores and I'm doing dozens of major shows for streaming
 
fun thing about fora like this, is that it is hard to know who have been into what development in what subject where.

I hope Jarred an Jon sort this out.
 
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Jarred Land said:
Jon, you might thing it is absurd but so are your assumptions on both counts.

It has nothing to do with ARRI. It has to do with what our customers ask us for.

And If it was just putting PL mounts inside a vice and machining extra holes we wouldn't be having this discussion. Our cameras use smart mounts, which means there are electronics and custom boards inside every mount, and to add LDS we need to not only make new mechanicals, but make all new boards and flex cables and all the electrical and mechanical engineering that comes with it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the quick reply, and sorry for assuming too much. However, as Gunleik mentioned in another post. He is working on some stuff where lens metadata would be a good thing... The company he is working for is something I started together with a researcher a couple of years back, and we are touching different sides of the world of metadata, and I'm pretty sure we're not alone. Good metadata acquisition is something more and more productions will require, and unfortunately ARRI made their own standard with LDS. Ultra Primes with i/interface has been on the top of my wish list for a few years... :/ Unfortunately, it seems like both i/interface and LDS needs to be supported to get lens metadata workable for your customers...

BTW #1: Kudos: just shot with the Dragon in the Tabernas desert, the raw file is so thick... it's a amazing. In shadows and bright sunshine, always a lot of extra room in the bottoms and tops, never ever a burnt out pixel! ...two black shades presets covered it all, and well worth the quality of the images in terms of resolution and dynamic range (the Tabernas dessert has been used to shoot more 70mm epics than any other place on earth I belive, so can't wait to see the full resolution image back home, in a slightly cinefile way)

BTW #2: Red Weapon, Avid DN*HD, can it happen? Seem to remember that Apple, in their licensing terms, won't let any device shoot both ProRes and DN*HD... ...hopefully this have changed?
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
Thanks for the quick reply, and sorry for assuming too much. However, as Gunleik mentioned in another post. He is working on some stuff where lens metadata would be a good thing... The company he is working for is something I started together with a researcher a couple of years back, and we are touching different sides of the world of metadata, and I'm pretty sure we're not alone. Good metadata acquisition is something more and more productions will require, and unfortunately ARRI made their own standard with LDS. Ultra Primes with i/interface has been on the top of my wish list for a few years... :/ Unfortunately, it seems like both i/interface and LDS needs to be supported to get lens metadata workable for your customers...

BTW #1: Kudos: just shot with the Dragon in the Tabernas desert, the raw file is so thick... it's a amazing. In shadows and bright sunshine, always a lot of extra room in the bottoms and tops, never ever a burnt out pixel! ...two black shades presets covered it all, and well worth the quality of the images in terms of resolution and dynamic range (the Tabernas dessert has been used to shoot more 70mm epics than any other place on earth I belive, so can't wait to see the full resolution image back home, in a slightly cinefile way)

BTW #2: Red Weapon, Avid DN*HD, can it happen? Seem to remember that Apple, in their licensing terms, won't let any device shoot both ProRes and DN*HD... ...hopefully this have changed?
Click to expand...

Kemalettin Sert said:
Sadly arri has both:/ dnxhd and prores
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Please bear with me as I'm still adding to my Knowledge Base... Are you guys wanting dnxhd in place of R3D? I mean you can convert to dnxhd in Redcine, can you not? I don't use Avid so I'm just trying to understand if there is any benefit for a non-Avid user to be able to record footage in dnxhd rather than RAW.
 
Elsie N said:
Please bear with me as I'm still adding to my Knowledge Base... Are you guys wanting dnxhd in place of R3D? I mean you can convert to dnxhd in Redcine, can you not? I don't use Avid so I'm just trying to understand if there is any benefit for a non-Avid user to be able to record footage in dnxhd rather than RAW.
Click to expand...

No benefit for non-Avid users, other than that DNxHD is a slightly better codec. However, if you edit in Avid, as more and more do, after a lot of editors have ditched one of their often two preferred editors, recording to DNxHD at the same time as recording raw is a huge benefit. Dailies and off-line files right off the camera. As mentioned, it's being done by ARRI, as the codec is technically similar to ProRes, it should be possible to implement it as a firmware upgrade to the W. camera, I would hope...
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
No benefit for non-Avid users, other than that DNxHD is a slightly better codec. However, if you edit in Avid, as more and more do, after a lot of editors have ditched one of their often two preferred editors, recording to DNxHD at the same time as recording raw is a huge benefit. Dailies and off-line files right off the camera. As mentioned, it's being done by ARRI, as the codec is technically similar to ProRes, it should be possible to implement it as a firmware upgrade to the W. camera, I would hope...
Click to expand...

So replacing Pro Res with DNxHD... now I get it.
 
Prores works just fine inside Avid -which remains the #1 editor in the world. And it's slowly catching up with 4K. Can edit and master in 4K now!
 
And DNxHD works even better. Don't forget the history... ProRes is the DNxHD copycat, and for the purist minded people, using ProRes inside Avid, is like eating Norwegian farmed and pinkly dyed salamon in a Michelin resturant.
 
Gravlox...
 
the UHD codec is called DNxHR. So how about ability to record (at the very least single stream) in ProRes 4K or DNxHR in ALL new weapon cameras. how about that for a feather in the Red engineer's cap? yeah yeah, i know "get an ursula mini".. but why have 4 quarters when you can have a buck?
 
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