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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

6K Dragon-X DSMC2 Petition!

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So does this mean SW is actually a 6K sensor software limited to 5K? And by sending in a SW for a board upgrade to Dragon-X we would eventually get to use the full 6K sensor once the firmware is finalized?
 
What would the 6K Dragon-X specs look like for us, btw? :D
 
Best guess / excpectancy for the dragon X 6K is something along the lines of the former Weapon 6K

SENSOR TYPE RED DRAGON 19.4 Megapixel CMOS
EFFECTIVE PIXELS 6144 x 3160
SENSOR SIZE 30.7 mm x 15.8 mm (Diagonal: 34.5 mm)
DYNAMIC RANGE 16.5+ stops
MAX DATA RATES Up to 225 MB/s using RED MINI-MAG
REDCODE RAW MAX FRAME RATES
75 fps at 6K Full Format (6144 x 3160), 100 fps at 6K 2.4:1 (6144 x 2592)
96 fps at 5K Full Format (5120 x 2700), 120 fps at 5K 2.4:1 (5120 x 2160)
120 fps at 4K Full Format (4096 x 2160), 150 fps at 4K 2.4:1 (4096 x 1728)
150 fps at 3K Full Format (3072 x 1620), 200 fps at 3K 2.4:1 (3072 x 1296)
240 fps at 2K Full Format (2048 x 1080), 300 fps at 2K 2.4:1 (2048 x 864)
 
Aaron Almquist said:
So does this mean SW is actually a 6K sensor software limited to 5K? And by sending in a SW for a board upgrade to Dragon-X we would eventually get to use the full 6K sensor once the firmware is finalized?
Click to expand...

It's been discussed before and even a tear-down was done online, but there are different amounts of RAM and other things involved. i.e. hardware limitations. The chip is there, the processing power isn't.

Similar to those who crashed their Scarlets way back when because it could "see stuff", but didn't have the horses to "do stuff".
 
Jarred Land said:
no no, I don't think we need to adjust the price... the 5k Dragon-X already have 6K sensors in them. We just need about a month of software work to get IPP2 working on 6k Dragons.

This wont work on Raven.. those sensors are hard 4.5k sensors. And some dragon sensors were software masked down to a smaller resolution that had defects down to a smaller resolution but that was mostly the VV dragons.

And this wont work on DSMC1 users on the list because remember the unified internal boards didn't happen until DSMC2.... But I think most of you have an upgrade path to Dragon-X so you can just do that to get you to this.


So.... the cleanest way to do this since our friend looks like he is gonna get his 50 signatures is to just turn the 5K Dragon-X into 6K Dragon-x and then let the Scarlet-W and MG folks do that normal $4995 upgrade to them.

A bit messy on our side.. some cameras will need more changes some less, but I think it will all balance out in the end and the upgrade fee Scarlet-W and MG users pay should cover the expense of doing this.. and Dragon-X owners just wake up with a better camera after hopefully just a new firmware... so I don't think we will need to charge any more for new Dragon-X 6K cameras.. the 5K Dragon-X just goes away, and Dragon-X owners are forever indebted to the MG and Scarlet-W guys and girls that initiated this change in the program.

The biggest problem with this is a cosmetic one. Scarlet-W and MG users that do this will get new bodies that will say Dragon-X 6k on them so they are ok.. but existing Dragon-X owners with 5K branded on their cameras that now shoot 6k will need to either live with that.. or we can figure out some sort of body upgrade fee to swap out that front panel if it bothers them. Kind of the worst panel to change because it requires a full camera rebuild just to change that, but still I don't see that being more than $500 or $600.

How does that sound?
Click to expand...

BTW this sounds amazing.
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Heya Jarred, did you mean the DSMC1 users when you said "most of you"? Just fyi, that there is no path for Epic Dragon folks to go to Dragon X. Which is nothing less than tragic. ;)

Maybe that'll change and I hope, that the EPIC Dragon to Dragon X isn't painful financially.

I'd love to be on DSMC2 Helium (from Epic-w) and DSMC2 Dragon-X 6K (Epic Dragon) and can't do this right away... it's just too much money. But maybe over time. So please don't make this time bound, if possible.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

+1 to this! I'm in the exact same boat and would love to keep riding the RED train!!! Would be great to have a pathway from epic dragon to dragon-x (and financially lovable from Australia :D)!

Choo Choooooooo!!!!
 
Phil Holland said:
It's been discussed before and even a tear-down was done online, but there are different amounts of RAM and other things involved. i.e. hardware limitations. The chip is there, the processing power isn't.

Similar to those who crashed their Scarlets way back when because it could "see stuff", but didn't have the horses to "do stuff".
Click to expand...

Very interesting, thanks for the clarification Phil!
 
Nikhil Kamkolkar said:
Heya Jarred, did you mean the DSMC1 users when you said "most of you"? Just fyi, that there is no path for Epic Dragon folks to go to Dragon X. Which is nothing less than tragic. ;)

Maybe that'll change and I hope, that the EPIC Dragon to Dragon X isn't painful financially.

I'd love to be on DSMC2 Helium (from Epic-w) and DSMC2 Dragon-X 6K (Epic Dragon) and can't do this right away... it's just too much money. But maybe over time. So please don't make this time bound, if possible.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hmmm...never realized there wasn't an EPIC DRAGON --> DRAGON X upgrade path, but there isn't, you are correct (I just checked).

Given these new developments, I could see lots of old-school Epic Dragon users jumping on this Dragon X if the upgrade is made avail...
 
Joshua Hoareau said:
+1 to this! I'm in the exact same boat and would love to keep riding the RED train!!! Would be great to have a pathway from epic dragon to dragon-x (and financially lovable from Australia :D)!

Choo Choooooooo!!!!
Click to expand...

That sounds like a separate petition :)

The reality is though that it wouldn't be so far off in price to buying just a new Dragon-X.

As Phil said the older DSCM1 and old Scarlets had different internals, One of the greatest things we did for reliability and manufacturing efficiency ( and confusion ) was to make everything as similar as possible inside which eventually led to the unified DSMC2, which is why it is so cheap to upgrade from most DSMC2 cameras to a Dragon-X etc. because we can reuse the most expensive parts. Older Scarlets and Older Epics don't share those parts.

For a DSMC1 upgrade even just at cost you are looking around the $10,000 to upgrade to a Dragon-X which I'd be willing to consider for a very limited number of existing customers as a loyalty/reduser special-moment-in-time-thing but I expect people would be just better off Ebaying their cameras and buying new. Or maybe not... you guys tell me.
 
Things are getting messy on the upgrade option front.

Raven, Scarlet, Dragon, W, X...Y...Z... sensor types, sensor cuts, boards, cosmetics.

Some sort of visualization of current and considered paths would help to clear out confusion and enable considering all options more precisely.

Camers basis ( sensor/internals ) > upgrade option (sensor/internals/new features gained)


Hats off Jarred for flexibility...
 
Jarred Land said:
For a DSMC1 upgrade even just at cost you are looking around the $10,000 to upgrade to a Dragon-X which I'd be willing to consider for a very limited number of existing customers as a loyalty/reduser special-moment-in-time-thing but I expect people would be just better off Ebaying their cameras and buying new. Or maybe not... you guys tell me.
Click to expand...

It's important to reiterate that everything RED is doing to simplify the lineup and bring consistency and clarity to it, are VERY important to do. Even if it means pain to the existing customers, of whom I'm one. Speaking for myself, I'd skip my epic-w board upgrade and my plans to buy the blackmagic 6K, and apply that budget to get my epic dragon into the dsmc 2 world. hopefully DSMC 3 doesn't end up making me regret this decision, as that's the real upgrade I want, but yeah, I'd go for this. ebay is certainly an option, and maybe I should check that out as the DSMC1 peripherals will otherwise be junked when I upgrade the camera, but am not very used to using ebay to buy/sell, and I prefer getting an upgrade thru RED even if it's a bit more money. Again, speaking just for myself.
 
+1 DSMC1 Epic Dragon
 
Jarred Land said:
no no, I don't think we need to adjust the price... the 5k Dragon-X already have 6K sensors in them. We just need about a month of software work to get IPP2 working on 6k Dragons.

This wont work on Raven.. those sensors are hard 4.5k sensors. And some dragon sensors were software masked down to a smaller resolution that had defects down to a smaller resolution but that was mostly the VV dragons.

And this wont work on DSMC1 users on the list because remember the unified internal boards didn't happen until DSMC2.... But I think most of you have an upgrade path to Dragon-X so you can just do that to get you to this.


So.... the cleanest way to do this since our friend looks like he is gonna get his 50 signatures is to just turn the 5K Dragon-X into 6K Dragon-x and then let the Scarlet-W and MG folks do that normal $4995 upgrade to them.

A bit messy on our side.. some cameras will need more changes some less, but I think it will all balance out in the end and the upgrade fee Scarlet-W and MG users pay should cover the expense of doing this.. and Dragon-X owners just wake up with a better camera after hopefully just a new firmware... so I don't think we will need to charge any more for new Dragon-X 6K cameras.. the 5K Dragon-X just goes away, and Dragon-X owners are forever indebted to the MG and Scarlet-W guys and girls that initiated this change in the program.

The biggest problem with this is a cosmetic one. Scarlet-W and MG users that do this will get new bodies that will say Dragon-X 6k on them so they are ok.. but existing Dragon-X owners with 5K branded on their cameras that now shoot 6k will need to either live with that.. or we can figure out some sort of body upgrade fee to swap out that front panel if it bothers them. Kind of the worst panel to change because it requires a full camera rebuild just to change that, but still I don't see that being more than $500 or $600.

How does that sound?
Click to expand...
Jarred you really are an amazing person. This is going to make people happy.
 
Jarred Land said:
no no, I don't think we need to adjust the price... the 5k Dragon-X already have 6K sensors in them. We just need about a month of software work to get IPP2 working on 6k Dragons.

This wont work on Raven.. those sensors are hard 4.5k sensors. And some dragon sensors were software masked down to a smaller resolution that had defects down to a smaller resolution but that was mostly the VV dragons.

And this wont work on DSMC1 users on the list because remember the unified internal boards didn't happen until DSMC2.... But I think most of you have an upgrade path to Dragon-X so you can just do that to get you to this.


So.... the cleanest way to do this since our friend looks like he is gonna get his 50 signatures is to just turn the 5K Dragon-X into 6K Dragon-x and then let the Scarlet-W and MG folks do that normal $4995 upgrade to them.

A bit messy on our side.. some cameras will need more changes some less, but I think it will all balance out in the end and the upgrade fee Scarlet-W and MG users pay should cover the expense of doing this.. and Dragon-X owners just wake up with a better camera after hopefully just a new firmware... so I don't think we will need to charge any more for new Dragon-X 6K cameras.. the 5K Dragon-X just goes away, and Dragon-X owners are forever indebted to the MG and Scarlet-W guys and girls that initiated this change in the program.

The biggest problem with this is a cosmetic one. Scarlet-W and MG users that do this will get new bodies that will say Dragon-X 6k on them so they are ok.. but existing Dragon-X owners with 5K branded on their cameras that now shoot 6k will need to either live with that.. or we can figure out some sort of body upgrade fee to swap out that front panel if it bothers them. Kind of the worst panel to change because it requires a full camera rebuild just to change that, but still I don't see that being more than $500 or $600.

How does that sound?
Click to expand...
Oh my gawd you magnificent SOB! I may drive to LA just to give you a giant bear hug.
 
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