#4K4ALL

[Tarquin Cardona]

Did I miss it? Or has there been any info yet on what the compression is at 120fps?

 

[Maik Müller]

Did I miss it? Or has there been any info yet on what the compression is at 120fps?

No final specs known so far, but in that video Jarred posted it looked like it was a two-digit number.

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

There are some differences. There are faster and slower cards and the faster ones allow lower compression on EPIC and WEAPON. I think this only applies to 1.8-REDMAGs, the Mini-Mags are all on the fast side. However, similar to Scarlet, Raven will be somewhat limited in it's maximum data-output. I don't expect the REDMAGs to be the bottleneck here.

Thanks for the info

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

OFFHOLLYWOOD has some 3rd party modules coming for RAVEN you guys are gonna dig.

More badass than the Weapon OMODZ ?

I would really dig a simple

+1 SDI
+1 HDMI + USB 5v
+1 Power Lemo 2pin Arri
+1 Red Power Input
+ RF/Wifi for Red THC / RT Motion / C Motion / Bartech Handcontroler, to control still lenses.
+ Wireless Audio in

Dockable with your teradek w module
and that's it.

I think of it as a small crew run'n'gun module.

 

[Trevor Meier]

OFFHOLLYWOOD has some 3rd party modules coming for RAVEN you guys are gonna dig.

Any hints Mark? Will you also be building to an ultralight standard like the Raven?

Seems like there might be quite a variety of needs at the low end, from the most basic (power & audio in) to slightly more complex. Almost seems like a modular approach might work.

 

[Mendes Nabil]

Does someone remember when did Jarred officially announced the Weapon and at what time zone?

 

[Nick Morrison]

The plate to get a HDMI out is $1750. The "battery holder" is $1150. The memory card is $850 for 120GB.

I'm kind of just pointing out the obvious. It's not an attack on RED. But there also is no reason to sugar coat it.

Maybe RED will have a Raven with some i/o included to offset the fixed mount? Maybe they can update these prices with a larger customer base? We'll see.

This sort of illustrates the challenge for RED entering the sub $10k market. Once they dip their toe, the expectation is EVERYTHING needs to be budget.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) RED is a CINEMA company, making world class gear. I've constantly amazed out how robust and sturdy their products are.

Have you seen how much accessories are for the Alexa Mini?

RED is going to constantly have to balance the needs of two markets now, which I know they can do - but I can't imagine will be easy.

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

I posted this over on DVXuser, but wanted to see how you guys here feel about it:

Man, those mini-mag prices do not fit a $6k body. $850 for the smallest size (120GB). I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe reliable media has to cost that much in the era of CFast cards. I think the average person looking to buy in the $6k range will choke on paying that much for the media.


Also hope you can control the body without using RED's touch screen. I already have a great 5" monitor and a Cineroid EVF. Those would be just fine for me.


CFast has a speed advantage over mini-mags, too...

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

This sort of illustrates the challenge for RED entering the sub $10k market. Once they dip their toe, the expectation is EVERYTHING needs to be budget.

That pretty much speaks to my post above (although I'd hardly call a $6k camera "budget"). Like you said, folks will expect the accessory/media price to match the body price, and they're not wrong. CFast cards are on the expensive end of media (~$320/128GB) and are a fraction of the price of mini-mags ($850/120GB). The biggest competitors in the price segment will have a huge advantage here if there is no alternative for the Raven.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

I posted this over on DVXuser, but wanted to see how you guys here feel about it:

Man, those mini-mag prices do not fit a $6k body. $850 for the smallest size (120GB). I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe reliable media has to cost that much in the era of CFast cards. I think the average person looking to buy in the $6k range will choke on paying that much for the media.


Also hope you can control the body without using RED's touch screen. I already have a great 5" monitor and a Cineroid EVF. Those would be just fine for me.


CFast has a speed advantage over mini-mags, too...

I think anyone buying in now is lucky and should be thankful at that price. The 128 1.8" SSD's used to cost twice that. And the 256 used to cost over $2500 each.

Not complaining about past prices. Just pointing out RED has done everything they can to help us out in terms of media cost. On top of that I've had my media for 4+ years and never have had to replace cards or buy new ones.

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

I think you guys are lucky. The 128 1.8" SSD's used to cost twice that. And the 256 used to cost over $2500 each.

And at those prices, most simply could not afford them. I think you're the lucky one if you can! At those prices, it'd surely be a rental item for me, even if I had the cash.

 

[Phil Holland]

There are some differences. There are faster and slower cards and the faster ones allow lower compression on EPIC and WEAPON. I think this only applies to 1.8-REDMAGs, the Mini-Mags are all on the fast side. However, similar to Scarlet, Raven will be somewhat limited in it's maximum data-output. I don't expect the REDMAGs to be the bottleneck here.

Yep. It's about what the Data Transfer Rate is in the camera, however, there are notable speed differences between MINI-MAGs for Weapon shooters, which is something people should know. It's clearly written and shown in the DSMC Media Operation Guide.

Specifically the fastest MINI-MAGs are the 512GB and 1TB. The 120GB and 240GB are a smidge slower. However, I think the 120GB and 240GB will fit what Raven's Data Transfer Rates can do.

Does someone remember when did Jarred officially announced the Weapon and at what time zone?

'Twas the night before NAB. 2015.
We awaited online and in Vegas to learn of the machine.
Near the stroke of the clock, close to a new day,
Jarred began posting with much to say.
There were Recon posts o' plenty announcing new the Weapon,
plus several new accessories that would be useful before yelling "ACTION".
Expanders and Modules, a new EVF, 3rd Party Accessory Support.
Magic Forged Weapon bodies, 8K Sensors, and the upgrade info in the report.
On the internet some of us looked on in awe reading info off the screens.
Just like the Double Rainbow, we weren't sure what all of this means.
One thing is for sure, after a moment, we all knew DSMC had evolved.
The only real question in April was if Weapon would ship on time remained unsolved.
I sit here penning a pleasantly pleased camera driven rhyme.
I can indeed confirm, as it is sitting next to me, RED Weapon shipped ON TIME.
What sort of miracle did it take for this to occur?!
The hard work of many, much appreciated, for this I am sure.
Now begins the curious tale of this new RED Raven camera brain.
An affordable RED indie-friendly cam, many are curious how to obtain.
To answer the query, this all occurred in Pacific Standard Time.
If I was you, around Midnight, do your best to be Online.

 

[Glen Powell]

I posted this over on DVXuser, but wanted to see how you guys here feel about it:

Man, those mini-mag prices do not fit a $6k body. $850 for the smallest size (120GB). I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe reliable media has to cost that much in the era of CFast cards. I think the average person looking to buy in the $6k range will choke on paying that much for the media.


Also hope you can control the body without using RED's touch screen. I already have a great 5" monitor and a Cineroid EVF. Those would be just fine for me.


CFast has a speed advantage over mini-mags, too...

I think anyone buying in now is lucky and should be thankful at that price. The 128 1.8" SSD's used to cost twice that. And the 256 used to cost over $2500 each.

Not complaining about past prices. Just pointing out RED has done everything they can to help us out in terms of media cost.

Pretty much fully agree with Jeffrey - Media cost has dropped, and the mini-mags are bullet proof. I come from a film background, where we planned our shots, and were very conscious of film / process / print costs and time. Be thankful that a card you'll be able to use and re - use shoot after shoot after shoot reliably is not 40 times that... every shoot day.

 

[Nick Morrison]

That pretty much speaks to my post above (although I'd hardly call a $6k camera "budget"). The accessory/media price should match the body price. That's what the market will expect. CFast cards are on the expensive end of media (~$320/128GB) and are a fraction of the price of mini-mags ($850/120GB). The biggest competitors in the price segment will have a huge advantage here if there is no alternative for the Raven.

Yes, but the difference is...those mini mags will also work on ALL OTHER RED cameras.

The Raven is not a locked indie solution. Its a step into the RED ecosystem.

I know of MANY people who started with a Scarlet MX. And now have Epic Dragons. And their careers have EXPLODED. And you know what? All their Scarlet accessories work THE SAME on an Epic Dragon. That's what made the trade up so easy.

Same screen. Same mags. Same everything.

Hard to TRADE UP when you have budget accessories that ONLY work on RAVEN.

So I personally applaud RED for what they are doing.

They are not simply competing with a C300 MK II.

They are inviting indie filmmakers to START with a RAVEN, and then MOVE UP the product line as their careers grow...without having to REPURCHASE accessories at every stage.

This is an aspirational and forward thinking strategy I have personally seen change the lives of numerous filmmakers.

 

[Glen Powell]

And at those prices, most simply could not afford them. I think you're the lucky one if you can! At those prices, it'd surely be a rental item for me, even if I had the cash.

Then maybe - this isn't the camera for you...

 

[Glen Powell]

They are inviting indie filmmakers to START with a RAVEN, and then MOVE UP the product line as their careers grow...without having to REPURCHASE accessories at every stage.

This is an aspirational and forward thinking strategy I have personally seen change the lives of numerous filmmakers.

Totally this - unlike every new Panasonic / Sony 'pro' camera I ever bought; where almost every accessory had to be purchased new with every iteration of nw camera.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

And at those prices, most simply could not afford them. I think you're the lucky one if you can! At those prices, it'd surely be a rental item for me, even if I had the cash.

I fully understand you. I'm not trying to knock those who can't afford it down. The point i'm making is that people like to make a point of what this stuff costs, and like to make it the reason they can't justify it.

It's like Phil said earlier. You can save money on accessories in some places. But i've used other cameras and rarely would media, power, plates, monitors still hold value to me in 4 years time. I'm using pretty much all the same gear I started with on the Scarlet MX and am now using it on Epic Dragon. The buy in is expensive, that is very true. Keeping that in mind, the fact I've used all the same accessories for that long is pretty crazy. Find another company out there making 4K + Cinema cameras for the past 5+ years that has allowed you to have the same accessories you started with, and also the reliability that comes along with it.

It pays for itself. For anyone looking at RED i'd say make it work for you, and make sure it's going to. The last thing you want to do is buy a camera that you're posting in The Marketplace 2-3 months later because you can't justify the cost, or can't afford it initially.

 

[Nick Morrison]

Honestly, I've been using RED cameras since 2007.

If someone told me TWO YEARS ago...RED would be offering a $6K RED Dragon that shoots 4K 120fps, I would never have believed it.

I can't express how LUCKY people are to have RAVEN on the horizon.

RAVEN can only be a GOOD THING.

 

[Fahnon Bennett]

Then maybe - this isn't the camera for you...

Red says #4k4all, no?

I'm not trying to be glib, but if they price the media/accessories out of the price range of most it's a bit misleading.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

Yes, but the difference is...those mini mags will also work on ALL OTHER RED cameras.

The Raven is not a locked indie solution. Its a step into the RED ecosystem.

I know of MANY people who started with a Scarlet MX. And now have Epic Dragons. And their careers have EXPLODED. And you know what? All their Scarlet accessories work THE SAME on an Epic Dragon. That's what made the trade up so easy.

Same screen. Same mags. Same everything.

Hard to TRADE UP when you have budget accessories that ONLY work on RAVEN.

So I personally applaud RED for what they are doing.

They are not simply competing with a C300 MK II.

They are inviting indie filmmakers to START with a RAVEN, and then MOVE UP the product line as their careers grow...without having to REPURCHASE accessories at every stage.

This is an aspirational and forward thinking strategy I have personally seen change the lives of numerous filmmakers.

Exactly! I was on the same side as a lot being cautionary on the price. But this camera delivers way more than the original Scarlet. Not only that it's like $4,000 less. RED has come along way and anyone looking at buying it should be cautious of what they can afford. However I can fully say this post is what happened to me. I wouldn't say my career "exploded" but I certainly grew with the gear as it grew.

It's opened doors and also has been a huge proponent to me leaning and growing to be better at what I do. The value of the gear carries a lot longer than the initial buy in.