#4K4ALL

[Sergio Perez]

Concerning Full Frame:

Like Phil, I've worked with full frame DSLRs at 1.4 or even 1.2 and pulled focus without issues. And I look at lawrence of Arabia, the beautiful 2001 A Space Odyssey, and recently The Master and the one I can't wait to see, Tarantino's The Hateful Eight, and I can't understand why people can't see the beauty of full frame.

Honestly, if there was a Weapon Upgrade for 6K Full frame that was about 10K from my Epic Dragon, I would jump without hesitation. Of course I would love 8K, but 6K full frame (with all current Epic Dragon frame rates) would be a dream upgrade in itself.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

I see a few words about Expanders and Modules on the last few pages. I've had Weapon for about 24 hours now. One thing I think is very, very smart about the current DSMC² concept is you can strip the camera brain down to an incredibly small package. Which is going to be useful for some types of shooting. I would say instead of having anything built in on the camera brain this new Expander system is a bit smarter. Rig small or configure the camera with whatever Expander you want want to solve your usage needs. Also, separating the DC, HDMI, SDI, and various ports from the brain does mean that if you have say a damaged port or whatever chaos happens; you replace the Expander, not the whole camera brain. That's a good thing.

I agree Phil. Totally. It's always easier to add to something modular like the Weapon (or even make a rig out of a DSLR for that matter) than to make a more inclusive camera like , let's say a Sony FS7 or FS5, "disappear".

There's just one problem here—the elephant in the room if you will: price.

Blackmagic Video Assist: 5", Full HD touch monitor, with tools and scopes, records ProRes and DNxHD to SD cards… Price: $495
Blackmagic Shoulder Kit: top handle, grip extension and tripod plate with shoulder pad… Price: $395
Blackmagic V lock battery plate… Price: $95

and

Blackmagic Full HD OLED Viewfinder… Price: $1495

RED lovers and haters alike can look at these facts from different angles. It is what it is. I don't know if RED can or want to do anything about their prices.

I'm more of a lurker here than a contributor, but anyone that knows me know that this isn't meant to be inflammatory at all. I'd go as far as to say that RED accessory prices are a problem.

 

[Ben Scott]

You don't have to buy your accessories from Red. Several low cost alternatives available.

 

[Christopher Kim]

You don't have to buy your accessories from Red. Several low cost alternatives available.

Could you point me in the general direction of these low cost alternatives?

I'm genuinely curious because the high cost of the accessories is seriously the number one reason I probably won't get a Red ever, as much as it would be a dream come true to work with Redcode. But if there are ways of mitigating some costs with third party peripherals, I may just join the club.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Concerning Full Frame:
Like Phil, I've worked with full frame DSLRs at 1.4 or even 1.2 and pulled focus without issues. And I look at Lawrence of Arabia, the beautiful 2001 A Space Odyssey, and recently The Master and the one I can't wait to see, Tarantino's The Hateful Eight, and I can't understand why people can't see the beauty of full frame. (snip)

I never said that experienced pros or even talented noobs can't nail focus on a FF/VV sensor. My point was simply that for a lot of shooting situations, especially with less experienced folk, buzzed focus will occur a heck of a lot more often than with a GH4 / C-series Canon / etc. I already have my deposit down on the 8K sensor for my Weapon and like Phil, am really excited to explore what I can do with it.

The more important point is that people bemoaning the smaller sensor target on the Raven are missing the upside of that choice. Never claimed it would suit everyone.

Cheers - #19

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

You don't have to buy your accessories from Red. Several low cost alternatives available.

The plate to get a HDMI out is $1750. The "battery holder" is $1150. The memory card is $850 for 120GB.

I'm kind of just pointing out the obvious. It's not an attack on RED. But there also is no reason to sugar coat it.

Maybe RED will have a Raven with some i/o included to offset the fixed mount? Maybe they can update these prices with a larger customer base? We'll see.

 

[Robert Andriessen]

If you want hdmi and power in, you could get a $950 jetpack expander. But the options from Offhollywood look really interesting, for instance the Omod Mini. http://offhollywoodreporter.com/omodz/
Most of your controls could be done via your iphone, including accurate focus.

The plate to get a HDMI out is $1750. The "battery holder" is $1150. The memory card is $850 for 120GB.

I'm kind of just pointing out the obvious. It's not an attack on RED. But there also is no reason to sugar coat it.

Maybe RED will have a Raven with some i/o included to offset the fixed mount? Maybe they can update these prices with a larger customer base? We'll see.

 

[Ben Scott]

Everyone from WC to Smallrig and dozens in between do great accessories for budget conscious shooters.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I understand the reaction to some of RED's pricing - but when comparing RED accessories to other manufacturers you do have to take into account how heavy duty most of them are by comparison. Are there 3rd party options for some things that are better bang for the buck? Of course. Based on 8 years with RED hardware I can honestly say the only time the upfront cost actually burned was when the item didn't hold up in the field (9" LCD I'm looking at you). As long as the piece is bulletproof, I'm happy to pay a bit more. Reliability is the crux of the biscuit if you ask me.

Cheers - #19

 

[Phil Holland]

The plate to get a HDMI out is $1750. The "battery holder" is $1150. The memory card is $850 for 120GB.

I'm kind of just pointing out the obvious. It's not an attack on RED. But there also is no reason to sugar coat it.

Maybe RED will have a Raven with some i/o included to offset the fixed mount? Maybe they can update these prices with a larger customer base? We'll see.

As somebody who's had a great deal of 3rd party gear over the years I can say a couple things. There's some stuff out there that's a good deal and even decent quality, but there's a ton of stuff that misses that mark. I have 2 broken V-Lock plates here I used to use with my Scarlet-X Mysterium-X for instance. My RED Epic Quickplate looks like it's never been used and it's been used nearly daily, so I'll vouch for that one.

While Raven is indeed an entry level camera, what you are getting for your "HDMI out" and "battery holder" are solid metal bits with proper Lemo connectors for AUX power, BNC for SDI, Sync, Ctrl, audio in, and importantly DC in. And those have a warranty, which is important as well in case chaos occurs.

I'm certainly a fan of saving a buck here and there and even "Macgyvering" (ah man this was janky). There's a few thing I know that are worth spending a bit extra on. A quality dovetail/quick release system for instance gets used a whole lot on a daily basis. You need stuff that doesn't break in reality.

That's for everybody to decide for their unique situation and learn those lessons on their own.

 

[AndreeMarkefors]

If you want hdmi and power in, you could get a $950 jetpack expander.

No. While the normal Base Extender allows for additional modules, the Jetpack won't let you hook up let's say the XL volt module. I'd say the Jetpack is a specialty thing. It would be good if I'm wrong.

Everyone from WC to Smallrig and dozens in between do great accessories for budget conscious shooters.

i wasn't aware that there were 3rd party Weapon body modules. Link?

While Raven is indeed an entry level camera, what you are getting for your "HDMI out" and "battery holder" are solid metal bits with proper Lemo connectors for AUX power, BNC for SDI, Sync, Ctrl, audio in, and importantly DC in. And those have a warranty, which is important as well in case chaos occurs.

The RED components look awesome and I'm sure they can take the inevitable beating.

Who am I to complain about price? It's hard to judge the cost of manufacturing and the business model. Had it only been the electronics one might have to shrug and swallow the pill, but I remember seeing support gear—like rigs and rods and that type of thing—carrying some pretty extreme markup. I'm assuming the same strategy applies to all components and there is nothing I see that implies otherwise.

I'm hoping that a less vertical and more horizontal business model might allow for more attractive prices.

 

[Robert Andriessen]

You will need an additional v-mount module (this you can get from a 3rd party if you want) and plug into the power in port of the jetpack.

But actually I think like Phil said, there will probably be either another Red new extender or one from 3rd party to fill this gap.

No. While the normal Base Extender allows for additional modules, the Jetpack won't let you hook up let's say the XL volt module. I'd say the Jetpack is a specialty thing. It would be good if I'm wrong.



i wasn't aware that there were 3rd party Weapon body modules. Link?



The RED components look awesome and I'm sure they can take the inevitable beating.

Who am I to complain about price? It's hard to judge the cost of manufacturing and the business model. Had it only been the electronics one might have to shrug and swallow the pill, but I remember seeing support gear—like rigs and rods and that type of thing—carrying some pretty extreme markup. I'm assuming the same strategy applies to all components and there is nothing I see that implies otherwise.

I'm hoping that a less vertical and more horizontal business model might allow for more attractive prices.

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

Jet pack is an end module. You can't plug a VLock mount

 

[Mark L. Pederson]

Jet pack is an end module. You can't plug a VLock mount

OFFHOLLYWOOD has some 3rd party modules coming for RAVEN you guys are gonna dig.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Jet pack is an end module. You can't plug a VLock mount

I put mine on a 15mm rod clamp and ride it on back rails, have for a while to make way for my red link wifi module.. Raven will have Wifi built in so i suppose i would prefer to slap the battery right onto the back, the base expander looks like it will work.. my biggest question is will my existing V-mount plate work on the new DSMC body..as it is my top and bottom plates do not look like they will carry over..i don't want to dismantle my epic dragon set up, but the battery plate fitting would be nice.

 

[Leo Sylvester]

I'm hoping that a less vertical and more horizontal business model might allow for more attractive prices.

This reads a lot like: "price your sh!t more in-line with blackmagic" haha

Over the last couple of years I have learned the extra money up front is almost always worth it. It's a bit difficult to swallow but it tastes so damn good you don't care. I got plenty of other things to worry about out there.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

very true, I've been reading a lot on other boards. People say things like this won't change peoples minds about buying into the ursa mini.. Why anyone would want to sacrifice having a company like red behind your tools for a small amount of money for a brand like BMD is beyond me.. a lot of this business is appearance, the RED brand speaks for it self in the industry. If i had BMD products i have a feeling i would be doing a lot of work for no money -___-. they look good on paper but Directors/Producers/DP's feel much more comfortable when they hear the word "RED".

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

Is there a difference in REDCODE compression when I use 128gb SSD and for example 512gb? Is bigger SSD faster than smaller? Can I achieve better compression when using bigger SSD?

 

[Michael Jarvis]

Bring on the footage! Really looking forward to tonight/tomorrow. Someone needs to get Jarred really drunk tonight so he'll spill the beans early.

 

[Maik Müller]

Is there a difference in REDCODE compression when I use 128gb SSD and for example 512gb? Is bigger SSD faster than smaller? Can I achieve better compression when using bigger SSD?

There are some differences. There are faster and slower cards and the faster ones allow lower compression on EPIC and WEAPON. I think this only applies to 1.8-REDMAGs, the Mini-Mags are all on the fast side. However, similar to Scarlet, Raven will be somewhat limited in it's maximum data-output. I don't expect the REDMAGs to be the bottleneck here.