#4K4ALL

[Brandon Kelly]

wonder if a jetpack expander will be necessary for I/O.

Wondering as well. I think it will be necessary as it is with weapon. For me I would most likely want the base expander, which has 3.5mm in and out. Maybe the under 10k package would include jetpack. And if you wanted XLR your looking at a nice chunk of change.

 

[Adam Rook]

Hey, Jarred,

Any chance you can tell us what time Friday the announcement will be made?
You know, so I can plan my day. Most of it will be spent on a plane but I'd like to know which flight I can expect to be really excited on.

 

[Brandon Kelly]

As a current scarlet mx owner with 5" touch, battery belt clip with 4 v mount batteries I was curious as to how much I might be looking at to get up and running.

Raven body, including mini mag ssd and canon ef mount - $5950
240gb mini card $1400
weapon base expander, to have 3.5mm in and out, use my v mounts and paralinx etc - $1750
lemo adapter A ? $195

$ 9295

I wonder what there sub-10k package will include?
Would be great if it had I/O ports, hdmi, 3.5mm in/out, TC on the brain like my scarlet mx. That would save having to get the base expander and drop the price nicely.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

As a current scarlet mx owner with 5" touch, battery belt clip with 4 v mount batteries I was curious as to how much I might be looking at to get up and running.

Raven body, including mini mag ssd and canon ef mount - $5950
240gb card $1400
weapon base expander, to have 3.5mm in and out - $1750
lemo adapter A ? $195

$ 9295

I wonder what there sub-10k package will include?
Would be great if it had I/O ports, hdmi, 3.5mm in/out, TC on the brain like my scarlet mx.

sounds about right..ugh i suppose the weapon accessories are worth it, good call on the 240GB card.. saves some money and would be acceptable in a Epic/Weapon..

 

[Jonathan Yonkers]

Blair, if RED made a FF small crash cam, you would buy it, yes or no? If you wanted deeper DOF, you could narrow your sensor size to the size you are used to, say s35mm. Yes or no?
So, what focus problem are you trying to illustrate? One in which other shooters make mistakes? If that was the case, this would only make you look better, as others would be out of focus.
THe thing is, we need creative controls, not crippled cameras.
Red Raven fills a very cool and important space in the creative line up: fast, small, high quality. It will be gorgeous!
Now, we need (in the future), an other camera, a FF Red crash cam that just has enough power to shoot great 24p. The rest of the arsenal seems to be already there.

 

[Andrew Lee Self]

Why are some complaining about the sensor size? Be thankful it isn't the BMCC size. If its such a huge problem, take a few steps back or get a super wide. I have a 10-20 that I use on my BMCC all the time and I get everything I need in the frame. The 120fps is HUGE, especially at that price point. With the EF mount, the high speed and the price point, this enables a lot of people to use RED on jobs they couldn't before.

 

[Brandon Kelly]

I agree, but everyone has different things that are important to them. I would love super 35 as well but the 4k from raven is very similar to my mx and I am used to that. But the real kicker is dragon sensor, 120 fps as I shoot a lot of action sports, so not being stuck at 3k 48 is taking me over the top already. Can't wait to be shooting with the dragon color and dynamic range, love the look of my mx, but I have to say dragon color and range is really nice indeed.

 

[Andrew Lee Self]

Agreed, I never thought that I would go from a RED one to a Dragon sensor, I haven't used Dragon yet so I am stoked! I have prepared my credit card and can't wait for friday to get here.

 

[Jonathan Yonkers]

Just to make one thing clear. I think the Raven is a really awesome new camera, absolutely! 120p with Dragon pixels on a camera that small and light will put all Canon and Sony options to sleep, most day of the week.
I also think RED is missing (for the near future) one jewel to finish in the crown.

Weapon
Epic
Raven
Scarlet
FF Red crash cam

 

[Mike P.]

I wouldn't be surprised if the real 4k4all ends up being BT Scarlet-Xs for like $2k... There were quite a few people that went Scarlet-to-Epic for $9500.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

I'm excited for Raven, but more than anything I'm excited about the rest we don't know. I'm hoping for some clues or signs of maybe something in the middle of Weapon and Raven. It's just such a huge gap.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

An argument could be made that a lot of shooters coming up have experience shooting video on a 5D, and considering how vogue shallow DOF was for a time a lot of people would be pretty proficient pulling their own focus full frame.

I get your point, but the video from the 5D was pretty soft even at critical focus due to line skipping. In any case, I don't have a problem with RED making a FF "crash cam" - I'm just not convinced that putting a lower horsepower FF camera on the market for under $10K would be all that popular due to the shallower DOF making focus a more difficult task. Yes, people who have the skills to do it well would potentially shine above those that don't - but I think that pretty much the same people have chops or don't, on S35 or FF.

Bottom line: people who are complaining about the smaller sensor area on a entry level camera are missing the upside, it's easier to keep in focus in uncontrolled situations. For less experienced shooters, that just might be a good thing. In any case, I feel like we've gone far off topic.

Cheers - #19

 

[Daniel Pearson]

Bottom line: people who are complaining about the smaller sensor area on a entry level camera are missing the upside, it's easier to keep in focus in uncontrolled situations. For less experienced shooters, that just might be a good thing. In any case, I feel like we've gone far off topic.

Cheers - #19

I totally agree on this point, and for the work I do (primarily doc, most previously shooting for a week in the desert sitting around f10) the smaller sensor size of Raven isn't a concern. Either way I don't see there being a "cheap" full frame sensor/camera seeing as the upgrade alone from 8K to 6K may in fact cost $20,000.

Back on topic

 

[BrandonChristensen]

I didn't even know about the Base Expander...so the body doesn't have HDMI or anything?

That changes things. maybe the Raven will have some ports built in...

 

[Karel Šimůnek]

It´s thursday here in Czech Republic! So 1 day to go!

 

[Matthew Quinn]

I didn't even know about the Base Expander...so the body doesn't have HDMI or anything?

That changes things. maybe the Raven will have some ports built in...

The fixed lens mount and lower price made me think it might have hdmi.. I mean if it IS supposed to be light and ready for gimbal/drone work we will need SOMETHiNG to plug a teradek into.. after more thought I think red wants you to buy a jet pack at the least for the hdmi port...

 

[Brandon Kelly]

Red dsmc2 does seem to need either jetpack or base expander to run power and anything else you need. Base expander adds 3.5mm in/out for audio other then built in mics. Im sure the sub-10k model will include jetpack, which means no wireless mics into the cam or monitoring audio with headphones. But like I said before it would be amazing if it included these things like the scarlet mx already bult into the brain. We have not seen pics of the back or right side of Raven, so who knows really.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I admit that I am still missing the "awe" factor in a FF sensor unless it adds something besides just being, well, full frame. If it has better light gathering capabilities, that's a benefit. If it has more pixels to work with (like Weapon 8K), that's a benefit. But the 5D was just FF because it was a still camera - makes sense for that. I always thought the 7D and 60D at APS-C/S35 size made more sense for anyone using it to shoot motion. What did I miss? :001_unsure:

 

[Karim D. Ghantous]

What is my "normal lens"? Which means, which is the approximate focal length that equates to a similar FOV of the general human experience.

The way that works out for me is:

S16 - 25mm (3/4-perf)
S35 - 35mm (3/4-perf)
FF35 - 50mm (8-perf)
65mm - 80mm (5-perf)
70mm - 110mm (15-perf)

A footnote if I may, for those who may not be aware: when surface area doubles, and aspect ratio remains the same, the focal length required to obtain the same AOV does not double, but increases by about 1.5x. That's why for 4-perf 35mm, the 'standard' lens is 35mm; but for 8-perf 35mm, the 'standard' is 50mm, not 75mm.

with case 2, you have a camera that we all want but wont admit for some stupid cultural reason that makes absolutely no sense what so ever.

It's not that I wouldn't want a Vistavision sensor, but I just wouldn't need one. Shallow DOF, BTW, is no more 'cinematic' than deep focus. Anyone who has watched enough movies knows that.

Also, lenses get bigger with a bigger sensor. I love APS-C (on photo cameras) because the lenses are smaller but the surface area is large enough to produce really good enlargements. Even Micro 4/3 is great these days.

I always thought the 7D and 60D at APS-C/S35 size made more sense for anyone using it to shoot motion. What did I miss? :001_unsure:

I agree with that sentiment. If I had to choose between Vistavision and Super 35, I'd choose the latter.

 

[Phil Holland]

Hey, Jarred,

Any chance you can tell us what time Friday the announcement will be made?
You know, so I can plan my day. Most of it will be spent on a plane but I'd like to know which flight I can expect to be really excited on.

If I know Jarred, he's likely going to wait until late Thursday night, and somewhere around Midnight Friday morning he might be dropping some more big info then making the web team catch up to him Friday during the day

He is pretty excited about Raven.

I see a few words about Expanders and Modules on the last few pages. I've had Weapon for about 24 hours now. One thing I think is very, very smart about the current DSMC² concept is you can strip the camera brain down to an incredibly small package. Which is going to be useful for some types of shooting. I would say instead of having anything built in on the camera brain this new Expander system is a bit smarter. Rig small or configure the camera with whatever Expander you want want to solve your usage needs. Also, separating the DC, HDMI, SDI, and various ports from the brain does mean that if you have say a damaged port or whatever chaos happens; you replace the Expander, not the whole camera brain. That's a good thing.

Also, I'd bet right now RED hasn't even truly flexed it's arms regarding Expanders. I can think of 3-5 concepts that would be incredibly useful outside of the current offerings and then there's the OMODs out there. Lots of possibilities.