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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Patrick Tresch said:
I understand what you say. But even on the F5 there is a picture look IMHO that is seen since the PD-150, Z1, Ex1,... Red has also a look even if you can change the character to "match" other cameras it will stay in the DNA of the picture. I don't think it's only due to the handling of the Picture profile.

Pat
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RED and ARRI (and Sony and Canon) all have their picture preferences and "culture" even. Yup, they can all to some degree be made to match, but that doesn't mean they are "the same".
 
Patrick Tresch said:
I understand what you say. But even on the F5 there is a picture look IMHO that is seen since the PD-150, Z1, Ex1,... Red has also a look even if you can change the character to "match" other cameras it will stay in the DNA of the picture. I don't think it's only due to the handling of the Picture profile.
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Patrick Tresch said:
Pat
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I'm pretty sure if I put up a video of mine mixing cameras you'd be hard pushed to say which was my FS7 and which was my Scarlet.

I've seen bad FS7, F5 and F55 work and grading in exactly the same way I have seen bad Red, Amira and Alexa work and grading.

Comparing the colour science of the FS7 to that of the PD150 is disingenuous at best :)

That said, I have always stated I preferred the outright image I got from the Scarlet when shooting standard sync images.
 
Maik Müller said:
Exactly.

BTW, reality-check: there will be a true 4k-sensor combined with REDCODE for less than 6kUSD in a world where one side still shoots 2.8k for blockbusters. ;) Lots of shoots are still done with Scarlet-MX, productions on EPIC are done in cropped 4k and so on, people shoot 3k for 4k-delivery if needed.


Just let's see what this baby can deliver and don't underestimate because of the "missing" 0.5k.
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#perspective
 
Brian Merlen said:
I also think those of you expecting it to have auto black shades/prores/bells/whistles will be disappointed... i mean look at the difference in price and features on the weapon line, it doesn't make sense to MG buyers if Raven is almost as good as that camera in functionality... for the price point i really doubt it will have all the additional stuff weapon does.. so don't hype this up to a point we all know it can't reach at this price point is my thesis... it will be an incredible camera, but it won't be a CF Weapon or MG weapon is all
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Looking at how other companies crippled their products successfully to distinguish product lines e.g. how Apple rationed FW800 ports or Canon gave the C100 the same sensor and DSP as the C300 but limited the codec to AVCHD I think just 4K and a fixed EOS mount is enough to make the Raven "entry level".
Since there most probably aren't build in NDs either, a big part of the non-cine crowd will be left out anyways. A doc on the C300MII might(!) not look as good as shot on a Raven, but functionality will win for many in the end. So to gain market share in the sub 10K segment, the Raven should come packed.
 
Opinions...

Opinions...

Have to agree with Patrick on this, each of the cameras out there has a "signature". That said, several of those camera systems can be significantly altered, in terms of both contrast and spectral characteristic, via numerous techniques.

To my eye, the Sony look always seems a bit "manufactured", the DSPs trying to make a "nice" picture - which can be an issue when going for a grittier look. One reason I love the RED cameras is that they try and capture as much visual information as they can, then let you "develop" that digital neg to suit your intent. The Alexa response curve seems to track Kodak 5219 film stock, which is one of the reasons so many experienced DPs like it. The Canons struggle a bit at the top and bottom of the luminance scale, but look darn good in the middle. The noise reduction goes overboard at times and the blacks crush too quick, but the accuracy of the color rendition speaks to Canon's deep roots in digital imaging.

Cheers - #19
 
Anyway I digress... Jarred, give me a reason to get back into Red in a big way :)
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Ben, my sentiment exactly! We were with RED from day one. Still remember the journey with our RED One, she was a feisty one but an experience, outside of 35mm film there was nothing in the market that could compete. We shot a BBC doc on the camera and the results were truly cinematic.

I'm excited to see Raven take flight on Friday!

Scott
 
I love the 120fps on the Raven, not a fan of the sensor size.
Is making full frame sensors that much more expensive?
Some one, please make a full frame sensor and make it shoot 4k with decent quality. Red truly wants to enter the under $10k market? Full frame sensor, moderate to high compression. Done!
In 10 years, all cameras used by all will be full frame, with option of croping to the size each person wants... just d it all ready, what the hell is taking so long?!
 
If Red really wanted to disrupt the market they would make raven EF only, minimag only, 5.5K (less than any dragon) and locked at 24/25 fps with 5:1 compression or worse. It would be great B camera so hollywood would buy as backups, crash cams, etc. but not replace any on set / top DP cameras. And why would anyone buy arri or BM or even Sony or Canon for theatrical when they could get basic functionality from Raven? And would still encourage lots of rentals of Weapon for the max quality paying gig / HFR, etc. Would totally be in RED's favor.
BWTF do I know ;)

Full frame sensor is holy grail - that will never be commodity item.
 
Jonathan Yonkers said:
I love the 120fps on the Raven, not a fan of the sensor size.
Is making full frame sensors that much more expensive?
Some one, please make a full frame sensor and make it shoot 4k with decent quality. Red truly wants to enter the under $10k market? Full frame sensor, moderate to high compression. Done!
In 10 years, all cameras used by all will be full frame, with option of croping to the size each person wants... just d it all ready, what the hell is taking so long?!
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You may have missed all the earlier discussion but the prevailing theory is that the 4K , 20mm-ish sensor comes from a "cut" of the 8K Weapon sensors when they have manufacturing flaws. I haven't seen anywhere where that is confirmed by RED but it seems to make sense.

As for a FF sensor, you're getting something along those lines in the upcoming 8K Weapon. Beyond that, I think you are asking RED to design and manufacture a whole new line.
 
I'm a full frame, VistaVision acolyte. Full stop. But what about managing critical focus? Unless everything you shoot includes a jock focus puller on crew or nobody moves...

I disagree with the thesis that all motion cameras will go full frame for a number of reasons, starting with it being overkill for 90% of the work. If auto-focus for motion work can improve enough then maybe, but on a longer lens at a wide stop it's going to have to be really flipping good.

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I'm a full frame, VistaVision acolyte. Full stop. But what about managing critical focus? Unless everything you shoot includes a jock focus puller on crew or nobody moves...

I disagree with the thesis that all motion cameras will go full frame for a number of reasons, starting with it being overkill for 90% of the work. If auto-focus for motion work can improve enough then maybe, but on a longer lens at a wide stop it's going to have to be really flipping good.

Cheers - #19
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Completely agree, Blair. I remember how nervous I was when the 2/3" Scarlet got canned in favor of the S35 sensor. Keeping focus on S35 is hard enough. :-)
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I'm a full frame, VistaVision acolyte. Full stop. But what about managing critical focus? Unless everything you shoot includes a jock focus puller on crew or nobody moves...

I disagree with the thesis that all motion cameras will go full frame for a number of reasons, starting with it being overkill for 90% of the work. If auto-focus for motion work can improve enough then maybe, but on a longer lens at a wide stop it's going to have to be really flipping good.

Cheers - #19
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We have the solution ;-)
 
Another big Q is gonna be what OLPF. I am assuming LLO as anyone thinking of maybe migrating from an FS7 would STP at an image getting noisy so soon when they are used to clean 2000 right?
 
I think it would make sense for them to put the Standard olpf in the Raven. I would like the low light as I shoot a lot of natural light stuff. I wonder how the standard olpf sensitivity compares to mx?
 
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