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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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M.Halsell said:
Adding more confusion to the house of cards:

1) The product line gets unified based on the Weapon modularity
2) The Scarlet and Epic lines fall back and get replaced by Raven
3) Dragon sensor becomes exclusively available on the Weapon only
4) Raven sensor will be aggregated from the practical yield of the current run, producing same color, sensitivity and FOV.
5) 4 or 4.5K will be the maximum acquisition for most practical applications. Possibly 6k for stills
6) No fixed lens mount
7) Red Code. Absolutely. Prores, not sure
8) Geolocation services
9) Price $12k - $15K (special early bird pricing)
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SOLD!

btw, someone wanna go check on Jarred, we should have gotten another hint by now. Maybe BMD has him captive, chained to an ursa.
 
M.Halsell said:
I feel after the dust settles, the street price will circa $18K. Similar to the REDOne pricing. Which fits the 4K4ALL motif.
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I'm thinking lower... quite a bit lower.

Reason for my thinking is I believe RED will move this camera as a loss leader in order to get more customers for their more expensive cameras as the new RAVEN owners grow in their business and become loyal users of RED workflow.

If true, that means the company is on sound footing and about to carve out larger market share for the future.

As a privately owned company they don't have to satisfy stockholders now, so is free to point toward future growth when the opportunity exists.
 
Yes, a newer, improved body style, a newer sensor (Dragon), higher frame rates, built-in mic... All for cheaper than a Scarlet MX. Makes total sense...
 
The untold factor

The untold factor

Has anyone thought of the fact that all existing red cameras, minus Weapon are really old tech?
it has been many years in tech years since dragon was born. My poin is, at some point the tech will make red come with fast, light cameras that cost much less. Raven may be the start of that.
If they decide to go with a smaller sensor, it will be a pity in my view and choice. All tech is catching up and Sony ans canon are lurking. I will welcome any red cam as always, but I am ready for a true 4k4all that shoots 120 bullets per second!
 
I personally love doing everything in linear, with RED i can shoot linear, send to vfx in linear, composite in linear, pre-grade in linear. For people that are more vfx/composite oriented red r3d linear is just a dream. I could see more of the vfx types whom don't often have a lot of cash but have a lot of talent in visual story telling, getting RAVEN just for the linear workflow.
 
How would gutting the value of their existing camera line and fucking their current customers in the corn hole garner legions of new, loyal customers? Since when is the bargain hunting portion of any market the most loyal? I'm sorry but that logic goes against everything I think I know about people, business and Red.

Red has a history of unprecedented actions to protect and bolster the value of their cameras. Yes there was an adjustment to Epic values, but the vast majority of Epic owners at the time were R1 early adopters who had already been handsomely rewarded. And speaking of loyalty rewards... How do you figure that a company so loyal to their early adopters would sell out an upper middle market that they themselves created to drag in the bottom? Does Red seem anxious to get into the old "prosumer" space or did they just make a big move toward the very top of the market? Didn't they scrap a fully developed prototype that would have served the bottom market segment just a few short years ago?

I have a dog in this race so I am certainly biased, but the loss leader dog just won't hunt. I see no supporting evidence.


Elsie N said:
I'm thinking lower... quite a bit lower.

Reason for my thinking is I believe RED will move this camera as a loss leader in order to get more customers for their more expensive cameras as the new RAVEN owners grow in their business and become loyal users of RED workflow.

If true, that means the company is on sound footing and about to carve out larger market share for the future.

As a privately owned company they don't have to satisfy stockholders now, so is free to point toward future growth when the opportunity exists.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Crawley said:
How would gutting the value of their existing camera line and fucking their current customers in the corn hole garner legions of new, loyal customers? Since when is the bargain hunting portion of any market the most loyal? I'm sorry but that logic goes against everything I think I know about people, business and Red.

Red has a history of unprecedented actions to protect and bolster the value of their cameras. Yes there was an adjustment to Epic values, but the vast majority of Epic owners at the time were R1 early adopters who had already been handsomely rewarded. And speaking of loyalty rewards... How do you figure that a company so loyal to their early adopters would sell out an upper middle market that they themselves created to drag in the bottom? Does Red seem anxious to get into the old "prosumer" space or did they just make a big move toward the very top of the market? Didn't they scrap a fully developed prototype that would have served the bottom market segment just a few short years ago?

I have a dog in this race so I am certainly biased, but the loss leader dog just won't hunt. I see no supporting evidence.
Click to expand...

http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/02/red-epic-price-cuts/

I dunno. I thought this hurt a lot of the Epic owners when it happened. Especially some people who purchased their Epic months before the price cut.
 
Emanuel A. said:
Of course, there are different types of 4K. In the case of the "consumer" (why the hell they invented YAGH and didn't launch AF200?) $1,499 GH4 (who mentioned the GH4, BTW? You ;) means external recording going with 10-bit 4:2:2 in a professional codec/higher bitrate binomial add-on available for $1,199.

4K4all only makes sense within a certain price range. If not, it would be a 'business gimmick' more likely to be condemned to fail as mere empty cunning marketing ploy or to be understood as the ultimate joke. BTW Part II, there are reduser and a whole world outside where RED is not the most loved camera company out there...

4K4all shall only be ruled by a simple rule, I guess: Supply and Demand. Where other camera brands (some big names and without proprietary media but really affordable, most part of them) and respective price list will surely show their teeth.

Thinking otherwise is naive. Reality rules over there.
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Actually I was responding to you mentioning GH4 on post #961. We don't know what 4K4All means. However, I think, since this is reduser that it means 4k4All who are interested in a RED camera. It doesn't mean that, now that it has been spoken, that the entire world of 4K cameras need to be factored into the price. It doesn't need to conform to any particular price range at all, except one that makes sense to RED, the digital cinema camera company and their offerings. I mean, good for all other camera companies and people who buy what they have but that doesn't have sqwat to do with how this will be priced. Reality-wise
 
Hugh Scully said:
Actually I was responding to you mentioning GH4 on post #961. We don't know what 4K4All means. However, I think, since this is reduser that it means 4k4All who are interested in a RED camera.Reality-wise
Click to expand...

But it was posted on Facebook, not Reduser.
 
David Dominguez said:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/02/red-epic-price-cuts/

I dunno. I thought this hurt a lot of the Epic owners when it happened. Especially some people who purchased their Epic months before the price cut.
Click to expand...

Most of them had been riding the R1 wave. You may recall that Epic had only been out of the upgrade back order for six months or so when the price adjustment happened. There were some new folks caught in the middle, but they were in the minority. Even early Scarlet buyers caught a break from the adjustment.
 
I think RAVEN will shoot 5K easy. Maybe even 6K. Again, if it can do 120fps @ 4K, it has the horsepower to handle 6K easily...Just sayin'.
 
Nick Morrison said:
I think RAVEN will shoot 5K easy. Maybe even 6K. Again, if it can do 120fps @ 4K, it has the horsepower to handle 6K easily...Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

It will largely depend on how big the sensor is :)
 
Nick Morrison said:
I think RAVEN will shoot 5K easy. Maybe even 6K. Again, if it can do 120fps @ 4K, it has the horsepower to handle 6K easily...Just sayin'.
Click to expand...
It has been said it won't shoot 5K. But you're right it looks like it has the giddy up to do it. I'm still curious about it though. You never know with RED.

As they use to say, "things change".
 
...as long as it's not the MX sensor (as some have suggested it might be). That would mean going backwards. It would also be a mistake. MX would make Raven a lame duck, IMO. After having Dragon, there's no way I'd be interested in anything with MX in it. I don't care how many awesome things it has shot.

I believe Jarred stated the future is through Dragon and, obviously, what comes after. Dragon in a $4-$8K body, if 4K4ALL means what most people think it does, is fairly significant because none of the current crop of sensors at that price point can match its overall image quality.
 
Brian Boyer said:
...as long as it's not the MX sensor (as some have suggested it might be). That would mean going backwards. It would also be a mistake. MX would make Raven a lame duck, IMO. After having Dragon, there's no way I'd be interested in anything with MX in it. I don't care how many awesome things it has shot.

I believe Jarred stated the future is through Dragon and, presumably, what comes after. Dragon in a $4-$8K body, if 4K4ALL means what most people think it does, is fairly significant because none of the current crop of sensors at that price point can match its overall image quality.
Click to expand...

dragons love ravens says jarred.
 
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