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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Josh Snyder said:
Well it comes down to the "4K4ALL". That really means 4K for all. Not 4K for professionals that can buy any camera they want. This camera will be affordable so that everyone can join the RED if they want. The market in 3k$ range is huge and it seems that RED wants piece of it.
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It was on their road map at one point, we all know that as a fact. The shift to do the higher/mid stuff first probably had good reason but I never doubted for a second that they abandoned the lower end altogether. It's pretty obvious it will be priced to the market. The market for 4K has a wide range but I think the median is right around....4K.

4K for 4K. Deja Vu.
 
Maik Müller said:
I think we will see the announcement on SCARLETs birthday.
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Really hope that it's going to happen in the next 3 days, not in November.

As for pricing, it'll all come down to a "working camera kit" price, body only is not really representative as RED's media and monitors are rather pricey and without them there is no working camera.

But then again, the photo is obscured, this new cam may feature a CFast side SSD, who knows. We'll see soon I guess.
 
Josh Snyder said:
Well it comes down to the "4K4ALL". That really means 4K for all. Not 4K for professionals that can buy any camera they want. This camera will be affordable so that everyone can join the RED if they want. The market in 3k$ range is huge and it seems that RED wants piece of it.
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I can't buy any camera I want, in fact I sold my Scarlet because I couldn't afford to upgrade it, but I certainly don't expect Red to be trying to seize the FS5/C100 market price-wise.

But Red IS a maker of tools for professionals. They come in all sizes and at all levels and while we are not all about to jump on 8K weapons, a $10-15000 'ready to shoot' Red could be massively successful and certainly lower the price of entry for many of those professionals into the ecosystem.

I think the C300 mk2 and the FS7 are the two yardsticks for a new cinema camera at the moment. One because it will be a market leader almost no matter how it performs, and the other because it is almost underpriced considering its spec.

Perhaps instead of telling them what it means, you should be asking Red what they mean by 4K4ALL?
 
I can almost guarantee this will be a m4/3 size because unless they created all new sensors with larger pixel pitch, it will be a 4k cut of the dragon sensor which is 1.96x (MFT=2.0) crop.
 
Ben Scott said:
But Red IS a maker of tools for professionals.

a $10-15000 'ready to shoot' Red could be massively successful and certainly lower the price of entry for many of those professionals into the ecosystem.
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A.) It's "4ALL" though...many pros use cameras in the $3-$6k range. All comes down to what your definition of "pro" is, for me it's anyone that makes money consistently by doing video work.

B.) It's not RTS but they already have something in that price range (Scarlet MX).
 
I was a Scarlet owner and believe me when I say I spent a hell of a lot more than that to have it ready to shoot!

Actually, it all comes down to Red's definition of who the 'all' are. But even so it's just a snappy throwaway tagline. It's not binding. There's plenty of choice in that lower cost arena already.
 
Jarred Land said:
I'll take that bet... How much do you want to wager?


I have a ton of respect for Black Magic.. What they are doing in post production software is incredibly disruptive and what they doing in the very low priced camera market is admirable.

But "Fear" and "Black Magic" is not two words that have shared the same sentence @ RED.
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Yaay!

Oooh, Jarred is watching :) Come on, drop us more hints, good Sir!

Yeah, I kinda imagine guys from disruptive companies like Blackmagic and RED would probably be more likely to want to grab a beer together and talk about their shared difficulties and esoteric frustrations of camera manufacture, dealing with crazy users, etc. Mutual respect!

Also, BM with Resolve has been immensely helpful to the RED ecosystem because suddenly everyone has access to good tools for working with RED footage. And BM makes the cheap 4K monitoring hardware people use for their RED projects, etc.

Imagine if more other companies were like RED and BM. We'd be living in the future!

What I'm really interested in is how many RED cams we'll see with that $1.5K 1080p OLED Blackmagic Ursa viewfinder attached via gaffer tape :) I've looked through it a bunch of times and it's pretty darn good. Not that the new RED viewfinder isn't better... it's just, well, the RED's viewfinder alone is the cost of an Ursa Mini 4K!

Bruce Allen
www.twitter.com/bruce_allen
 
Ben Scott said:
I was a Scarlet owner and believe me when I say I spent a hell of a lot more than that to have it ready to shoot!

Actually, it all comes down to Red's definition of who the 'all' are. But even so it's just a snappy throwaway tagline. It's not binding. There's plenty of choice in that lower cost arena already.
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Oh me too but I'm talking about as it stands right now. If you shopped around you could easily get a kit ready for under $10k. Bare bones of course but I'm assuming that's what this new thing will be as well.

I mean, they won't give them away and it all depends on the specs.

If it's the Dragon sensor and it can do 4K/60 and it's upgrade-able, and it can do 120fps at 2K...yeah, it's worth more.

If it's MX sensor and it can do 4K/30 and 2K/60...$4,000 would be fair in this market.
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
You betcha Red is scared of BM.
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I feel like a company that names their products "BOMB EVF" and "W.M.D" and "T.H.C." and "Weapon" is more concerned with their pursuit to make the best products in the business than fearing someone will beat them to the punch.

They didn't just make another Weapon... they're about to drop a tactical nuke on the market.
 
Ben Scott said:
You can afford an Alexa Mini and can earn a return on that investment with work but instead you're going to buy an Ursa Mini?

Hmmm... Good luck to you.
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Man, who talked about buying an URSA mini? I'm a man of "justice", i'm "fair", i will never defend a brand and bash others because of a pseudo-fidelity, i'm honest. If a Camera sounds great to my ears, i will say it, whether or not i'm planning to buy it.

People who defend a system because they invest money in this system make me gently laugh, they try to convince themselves that they made the right choice, that they've choose the "greatest brand"..

Man, i'm a Red owner, and i love this brand and its community, but when i feel like something is wrong, i say it. Not to bash, but to incite to more greatness, and personally, i think that Weapon lost the match against Alexa mini, Red Texture and color science need to reach the next level.. BUT, with this #4k4all camera, cards are redistributed,

-We had : Great quality at high price (Red Weapon) VS Greater quality at the same high price (Alexa mini)

-We'll have: Great quality at "low" price (4k4all) VS Greater quality at high price (Alexa mini),

the choice will not be as obvious as before..
 
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Mendes Nabil said:
Man, who talked about buying an URSA mini? I'm a man of "justice", i'm "fair", i will never defend a brand and bash others because of a pseudo-fidelity, i'm honest. If a Camera sounds great to my ears, i will say it, whether or not i'm planning to buy it.

People who defend a system because they invest money in this system make me gently laugh, they try to convince themselves that they made the right choice, that they've choose the "greatest brand"..

Man, i'm a Red owner, and i love this brand and its community, but when i feel like something is wrong, i say it. Not to bash, but to incite to more greatness, and personally, i think that Weapon lost the match against Alexa mini, Red Texture and color science need to reach the next level.. BUT, with this #4k4all camera, cards are redistributed, we had:

Great quality at high price (Red Weapon) VS Greater quality at the same high price (Alexa mini)

Now we'll have: Great quality at "low" price (4k4all) VS Greater quality at high price (Alexa mini),

the choice will not be as obvious as before..
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At NAB I had a chance to speak with Gunther, One of the Sales reps for ARRIi. From what i understand The Alexa Mini was not designed to handle the responsibility of an A-CAM on a feature film... it was designed to complement the Alexa on set as a Gimbal/Drone CAM as i believe it can only record for about 20 min ARRI RAW 4:3.. maybe one day they will be able to add more storage to the Camera without external recording, but if your task is to shoot a movie and you want to use an ARRI product, you better look at Renting the Alexa. The Dragon wins for what i need it to do in all ways...I don't even know how the ARRI Mini got brought into this?
 
Reds crash cams
 
Matthew Quinn said:
At NAB I had a chance to speak with Gunther, One of the Sales reps for ARRIi. From what i understand The Alexa Mini was not designed to handle the responsibility of an A-CAM on a feature film... it was designed to complement the Alexa on set as a Gimbal/Drone CAM as i believe it can only record for about 20 min ARRI RAW 4:3.. maybe one day they will be able to add more storage to the Camera without external recording, but if your task is to shoot a movie and you want to use an ARRI product, you better look at Renting the Alexa. The Dragon wins for what i need it to do in all ways...I don't even know how the ARRI Mini got brought into this?
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For corporate work the Dragon is perfect, but for Cinema i see only 2 solutions: Film, or Alexa (when you don't have the budget).

20 minutes Arriraw is enough (i only have 8 minutes with my Red one Mx), plus they will certainly make bigger Cfast cards..

And for your last question, the answer is simple, the Alexa mini got brought into this because people shoot mostly at 24fps, they love the arri look (the most filmic digital camera right now), and they need a light system, the Arri mini is the answer..
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
People used to bash Red all the time in the early days... happens with every new camera brand. If the Ursa Mini is done right, it could kill Red's mid-end market in one fell swoop. BM could seriously improve upon the price/value ratio offered by the Scarlet by using third party accessories and materials.

You betcha Red is scared of BM.
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Ah Trolling again as usual :)
 
Mendes Nabil said:
For corporate work the Dragon is perfect, but for Cinema i see only 2 solutions: Film, or Alexa (when you don't have the budget).

20 minutes Arriraw is enough (i only have 8 minutes with my Red one Mx), plus they will certainly make bigger Cfast cards..

And for your last question, the answer is simple, the Alexa mini got brought into this because people shoot mostly at 24fps, they love the arri look (the most filmic digital camera right now), and they need a light system, the Arri mini is the answer..
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http://www.red.com/shot-on-red
 
Man I hope the teases keep on coming or my head is going to explode, damn you ;)
 
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