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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

#4K4ALL

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Mark L. Pederson said:
BM should be worried about GoPro and the APPLE - because they will soon surpass their image quality.
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My opinion is that you're mistakenly underrate what Blackmagic is doing right now, don't forget that the new Ursa mini has a "Blackmagic sensor" which wasn't the case before,
be ready for some surprise..

Does someone know when will we have more informations about the #4k4all ?
 
Mendes Nabil said:
don't forget that the new Ursa mini has a "Blackmagic sensor" which wasn't the case before,
be ready for some surprise..
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I can assure you both GoPro and APPLE have a lot more sensor technology and/or sensor technology relationships .... and financial resources than BlackMagic. By kinda ... well ... a LOT.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
My opinion is that you're mistakenly underrate what Blackmagic is doing right now, don't forget that the new Ursa mini has a "Blackmagic sensor" which wasn't the case before,
be ready for some surprise..

Does someone know when will we have more informations about the #4k4all ?
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Was someone other than BM designing their interfaces all this time too?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
Also known as people who are not satisfied with BlackMagic or DSLRs as their 4K solution.
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I don't think there is anyone who will not be satisfied with the 4.6K URSA Mini. People who are not satisfied with the current DSLR's are probably going to look for BM URSA 4K and Sony a7S II. If they have budget for a little more, then for the 3-7k$ range there's BM URSA Mini 4.6K, Sony FS5 & FS7, Canon C100, C100 MKII & C300 and so on.

You are way out of the loop if you think that people who are not happy with older BM models or DSLR's would buy 4K camera that costs over 10k$.
 
Josh Snyder said:
You are way out of the loop if you think that people who are not happy with older BM models or DSLR's would buy 4K camera that costs over 10k$.
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The Canon C300 MK2 - at $16K is has MAJOR pre-sales outpacing all projections. FACT.

How would you explain that?

Do you think that all the folks putting down $16K for the C300 MK2 didn't consider BM Ursa, etc. ....?
 
Phil Holland said:
More thoughts since my last post.

What is clear, at least to me is the new camera line-up shortly will be:

- RED "mystery camera" (unknown specs or release date)
- RED Weapon 6K Dragon MG (Shipping after CF/Forged and eventually at the same time)
- RED Weapon 6K Dragon CF/Forged (Forged already shipping, CF likely October/November 2015)
- RED Weapon 8K Dragon CF/Forged (Hopefully shipping before 2015 is over)
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which doesn't make sense because they left out all of the middle ground. It's either extreme performance or basics. the epic future is limited because now it has to fall under the weapon in specs, so the epic dsmc 2.0 (good idea btw with the naming) will be no different than the current besides a body change.
 
No idea why your current bar for reference is set at 'DSLRs'. This is Reduser.

How do you know nobody will have a problem with the Ursa Mini? Do you have one? There has been a fundamental problem with every single camera BM has released. How do you know 100% that the Ursa Mini doesn't have one?
 
Mark L. Pederson said:
The Canon C300 MK2 - at $16K is has MAJOR pre-sales outpacing all projections. FACT.

How would you explain that?

Do you think that all the folks putting down $16K for the C300 MK2 didn't consider BM Ursa, etc. ....?
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I think they did. Just like all the folks who put down 5k$ for 4.6K URSA Mini thought about RED Scarlet, C300 MKII and the rest.

And for the question why someone would buy C300 MKII over URSA Mini is a) URSA Mini's are not shipping yet and no shipping date is known and b) different cameras for different job.
 
Ben Scott said:
For myself, I have yet to see a Blackmagic Camera that didn't have some sort of fatal design flaw. Hopefully they'll get it right one day but thus far I don't know of a single TV show (let alone drama) that has shot on BM cameras exclusively, and for a reason.
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That's because URSA's are the first cameras that are really built for purpose. The first BM cameras are just good image for cheap, in a box that is not built for pro productions.

Ben Scott said:
How do you know nobody will have a problem with the Ursa Mini? Do you have one? There has been a fundamental problem with every single camera BM has released. How do you know 100% that the Ursa Mini doesn't have one?
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I've read reviews from people who have been using it.
 
Josh Snyder said:
I don't think there is anyone who will not be satisfied with the 4.6K URSA Mini. People who are not satisfied with the current DSLR's are probably going to look for BM URSA 4K and Sony a7S II. If they have budget for a little more, then for the 3-7k$ range there's BM URSA Mini 4.6K, Sony FS5 & FS7, Canon C100, C100 MKII & C300 and so on.

You are way out of the loop if you think that people who are not happy with older BM models or DSLR's would buy 4K camera that costs over 10k$.
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I work in the general world Mark is referring to. There are very big reasons you do not see BM cameras as main cameras on larger productions. It does come down to reliability, image quality, and color. And yes, I'll be testing the Ursa Mini when I can, but generally outside of pickups and special purpose shot use, BMs haven't been "there" yet. Way too much risk still.

There are different markets though and I certainly can't ignore the "value" you get for a BM camera when it comes to price versus performance. However, the second any producer or studio sees any card write error/data corruption like that within tech prep test it's game over.

No reason to be at war with each other. You are arguing different perspectives and local experiences.
 
C300 MK2 isn't shipping yet.

Ursa Minis started shipping this week I believe.

You can read all the reviews in the world but until you have to deal with the day to day working and living with a camera on production you can never really get to know its quirks.

EDIT: Also what Phil said. BMs often offer a great image at the cost of a lot of PITA workarounds and time consumption. On certain shoots that is something that is acceptable in order to keep camera costs down. On other types of shoot it is an instant dealbreaker.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
I truly don't understand this "Blackmagic bashing" i'm seeing here, but anyway.
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Well ... it was really just responding to a comments about URSA's price, etc. RED does NOT have to price a 4K camera the same or lower than a BM camera if it has much better images. And in the end WHO CARES - the market will always bear what the market really is. As my grandfather always said ... "everything comes out in the wash".

I'll tone it down. Sorry.
 
Mendes Nabil said:
I truly don't understand this "Blackmagic bashing" i'm seeing here, but anyway.

This @4k4all makes me say 1 thing: It's time for Arri to cut the price of their beautiful but truly expensive Alexa mini, i hope that will happen soon..
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People used to bash Red all the time in the early days... happens with every new camera brand. If the Ursa Mini is done right, it could kill Red's mid-end market in one fell swoop. BM could seriously improve upon the price/value ratio offered by the Scarlet by using third party accessories and materials.

You betcha Red is scared of BM.
 
Alright, but we should not judge something that has not even been shipped yet, we know nothing about this camera except its specs which are: "4,6k Raw/15 stops of Dynamic Range at 4k$", which is pretty crazy..

But to be honest, my concern is more about the Alexa mini, i hope that Arri will cut its price really soon..
 
REDRAW and the ecosystem around it is a much more powerful tool than you might realize. As for sensors, I think Red will only move forward not back.

And as for price—Red has always stated that their cameras are tools for professional filmmakers. That means the camera is an investment designed to make you money (money in > money out). The C300 MkII's are hot at $16K apiece, as are the FS7's (which are a beautiful, capable little camera for the price) because that's a price point that people can make a living at. Red can own that space with this camera... but anyone expecting Red to release something for $4-5K is fooling themselves, I think.
 
Dunkan Wolf said:
You betcha Red is scared of BM.
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They operate in completely different worlds and are not in competition with each other in any camera space i can see.

The Ursa Mini is targeting the FS5/FS7 space.

Until it gets used on a single broadcast production it seems quite a bit of hyperbole to talk in this way....
 
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