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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K?

Jannard said:
Of course! Jarred and I fly the Octocopter as much as we can inside Stage 4.

The last time... I flew the copter and Jarred flew the camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hehe,

sounds you are preparing for some decent paparazzi shootings. A new career?
Our you can help uprezzing google earth resolution... Ouch!
But it will not help for spying Sony & Co. - they have presumably nothing new in their pockets. LOL.

Yep, sounds like big fun.

Just don't make it the octo-chopter by flying to deep above someones heads...

Best,
Axel
 
We are with you all the way Jim!
Because
- You push beyond the barriers because you can and do not accept less. It's so heart crushing when you realize that "other" cameras do not have a feature because the manufacturers were to comfortable selling mediocre quality.
- Your transparency to the customers that you treat more like your friends. I think you are showing exactly how a company should communicate with their customers
- You have a very complete package, new cool things are coming all the time.

I just tried the camera in the warmest and wettest rain forest and then up in the freeeeezing mountains riding snow scooters filming 5cm from the ground in full speed. Not a single problem, it just works.

Best wishes, we are with you.
/Andreas and Natalie
 
4k from 4k solution.

4k from 4k solution.

Jannard said:
We entered the market way back when with a 4K camera. Our thinking was that 1080P was not good enough to replace film. We were right apparently... 7 years later.

What we learned along the way was that while 4K acquisition was certainly better than 1080P... it was not ideal.

A 4K finish from a bayer pattern sensor (what everyone does) begs for more captured resolution than 4K. A 1080P sensor (1920x1080) does not fill up a 1080P box. A 4K sensor also does not fill up a 4K box.

Our M-X sensor captured 4.5K in a RED ONE and 5K in an EPIC-X (or EPIC-M). Much better. The 4K box was almost full. 6K... the 4K box is overflowing.

Going forward, we realize that down-rezzing has a HUGE advantage to final output. Hence the 6K Dragon.

Not only do you have the option to recompose, stabilize, and zoom... the idea of down-rezzing gives a much better final output to a 4K delivery. It lowers noise. You get apparent sharpness without sharpening.

So while the others have joined the party... they have entered where we were 7 years ago. They have thrown the ball to where the receiver was... not where he is.

At some point you need to decide who you believe will deliver the future. The company with the vision, or the company that follows the vision. Who is ahead and who is behind?

If the company with the vision also happens to embrace their customers at all costs (upgrades instead of all new cameras)... you win every which way you look at it.

The choice is yours...

Jim
Click to expand...

I remember years ago, people would say that bayer 4k only produced a low resolution, then Graham came and announced that the new Bayer procedures had been increased it a lot. The extra resolution did not just appear, somebody smarter came along and coaxed it out, it was there all along. As I have always said, every, properly lit, pixel, has a pixel of resolution, it is just a matter of figuring out how to extract it sufficiently. Somehow we have gotten obsessed with lines on a resolution chart, which are not at all actual resolution, as if they are. Bayer in software and hardware unfortunately, because of the low pass filter, drastically blurs details, making those lines less distinct, however each pixel still records detail presented on it. We need to throw out these resolution charts. You can extract the detail that is there and enhance it. You might call it sharpening, but I call it intelligent sharpening.

The solution:

From my work on 3D from single lens images years ago, there is an easy solution. For every detail that is blurred there is ussually a peak response at the middle of it. By detecting the edges of the unfocused circle around it and the rise to a peak in the middle (assuming it has not been fully leveled relative to pixel response), separating from other overlapping circles, you can detect the bump in the data on the pixel that represents true local detail to that pixel and try to restore some of it. By working out where all these pools of light came from, you can subtract and add to each pixel broadly more authentic detail that should be there. There are limitations, and some precision is progressively loss with less sensitive pixels and so on, but you land up with a more authentic Bayer, closer to three layer pixel. From my own work, but I'm reasonably sure others have probably been there before me.


So ultimately, especially building a bit of intelligence into the program, a 4k sensor can produce a 4k image, but the exciting thing is, that a 6k camera can produce a 6k image and still be a bit better downscaled to 4k. However, removing the optical low pass filter completely on a camera, is a bit like 4k-the non fill factor percentage, i.e. 4k-0.3, just to indicate the loss if detail between pixels (though a filter losses precision of detail that has to be restored, as per above).


Have fun, and please release a 4k 3 layer or Bayer, pocket camera just to mess with the market this year Jim :)

( Sony is actually doing a full frame 35 mm fixed lens unit with curved sensor to reduce the lens stack. As long as the notion is not covered by patent, I have come across somebody that could possible design optics for something like that.
 
Jannard said:
Of course! Jarred and I fly the Octocopter as much as we can inside Stage 4.

The last time... I flew the copter and Jarred flew the camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

If I could be so bold, what copter are you flying? I have been shopping for a good system to go with the Epic for a while but I imagine the one you went with is probably the most ideal. It's a very fun way to get shots, that's for sure!
 
K

K

PatrickFaith said:
I kind of think of the monochrome as a early representation of what you get for 6k (since the monochrome has no debayer). I find I never shoot at 4k even when I'm going to a 2k di ... the 5k picture is ALWAYS better. I think people that are thinking that 5k is ok for a 4k dcp, and they will not use the 6k, will be in for a surprise. I think people will end up loving the 6k and shooting in 6k, no matter what the final is.
Click to expand...

I concur that 6K will noticeably outperform 5K as a source for a 4K deliverable. That said, one needs the optics able to exploit 6K rez and most S35 coverage lenses will vignette past a 31 or 32mm image circle. While there are some sweet full frame lenses, most are designed for stills so operational compromises can limit use cases. My personal plan is to use the full 6K real estate on the Dragon for wide landscape shots, plates, b-roll, etc and embrace the slightly softer 5K/S35 option - and the great cine lenses designed for it - for shots of humans. Can't wait to test my theories... ;-)

Cheers - #19
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I concur that 6K will noticeably outperform 5K as a source for a 4K deliverable. That said, one needs the optics able to exploit 6K rez and most S35 coverage lenses will vignette past a 31 or 32mm image circle. While there are some sweet full frame lenses, most are designed for stills so operational compromises can limit use cases. My personal plan is to use the full 6K real estate on the Dragon for wide landscape shots, plates, b-roll, etc and embrace the slightly softer 5K/S35 option - and the great cine lenses designed for it - for shots of humans. Can't wait to test my theories... ;-)

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...


I think when bigger sensors are available then those "cine lenses" will not look so appealing any more. I think any proper still lens will actually feel better to have than those cine lenses that does not cover. Just as I could not care much for some very fine glass I have now that does not covers more than 4k... So I think for the most of us the "only" 5k covering lenses will probably stay on the shelf quite a lot when the 6k stuff arrives, not only for the landscape shots. To me pretty much everything looks increasingly better with a bigger sensor size.
 
Tom Greenberg said:
It's smooth as butter right now!

You can edit R3D's natively in Premiere CS6...just bring 'em in, toss them on a timeline and start editing...no transcoding, no BS. And you can access the RAW metadata parameters easily within Premiere...you don't even need to use RED-Cine-X if you aren't transcoding to some other format. You don't need a RED Rocket if you are willing to work in 1/4 or 1/8 res while editing...I do it all the time on a stock 17" MBP i7. Post couldn't be any simpler on RED footage if you follow the path of least resistance. If you are editing in something other than Premiere, you need to make some accommodations, but it is still pretty easy.
Click to expand...

Yeah! Liking the Premiere playback. Really nice. And great news that AVID is coming out with this too in v7. Let's see how it actually works. This is all Alpha version software in a sense, and if you find it all to work smooth as butter, more power to ya! I spend way more time dealing with making projects flow from one piece of software to the next in the post ecosystem, and transcoding only increases the complexity of media management.
 
what amazes me is how fast it got pushed mainstream once the tvs hit the US. i mean we went from 30k systems to 1,300 dollars systems in like 6 months or so? people tell me 4k is YEARS away, but personally I am not so sure. once distribution is standard is some system with monitors as cheap as on tiger direct I think it'll really make waves mainstream...

But all of this is basically because of Red pushing it for years now. You guys laid the ecosystem, and pushed for it until you were blue in the face. Isn't it funny to now see every darn manufacturing jumping on the bandwagon? I think it might actually catch on distribution wise mainstream much sooner than people anticipate. Its good news for all of us, people needing 4k content for more than just the most highest of budgets!
 
All those multicopters at NAB really make me want to fly one. I fly RC planes, and yes I've crashed my fair share of them, I'm sure I can crash an optocopter just the same. They just look like a lot of fun! I saw a quick glimpse of the DJI toy quadcopter. Ordered one... Maybe it will inspire me to go bigger. Actually it's pretty cool for being a "toy" with GPS positioning, return to home, and intelligent flight control.

As for 4K displays, online vendors are starting to get the no-frills 4K panels from the Asian market now. I see some filtering down in the $1300 range. Hisense will be selling their 50" UHDTV at WalMart in June for $1200. No, I'm not just saying that. June. 4K is here...
 
A 4K finish from a bayer pattern sensor (what everyone does) begs for more captured resolution than 4K. A 1080P sensor (1920x1080) does not fill up a 1080P box. A 4K sensor also does not fill up a 4K box.
Click to expand...

Most HD was 3 x 1080p sensors = 6 million pixels, no debayer processing but such potential resolution and fidelity was not leveraged due to a decade of "good enough" 10bit recording.

Just sayin'

RED's purchase of ET is another step in the right direction to build an enduring business. The business model which Arri have thrived upon for decades includes building customer respect through design of really useful and ergonomic camera accessories.



Mike Brennan
 
Jannard said:
Of course! Jarred and I fly the Octocopter as much as we can inside Stage 4.

The last time... I flew the copter and Jarred flew the camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

Awesome! one of my favorite past times is flying our Epic on my rig I built from scratch: www.x3quadcopter.com
nice to hear your also a Pilot. :)
 
Obin Olson said:
Awesome! one of my favorite past times is flying our Epic on my rig I built from scratch: www.x3quadcopter.com
nice to hear your also a Pilot. :)
Click to expand...

I was wondering if Jim piloted his own rig...actually that was my very first thought, and then his confirmation only made me smile.

I've been wanting to do aerial shots, motion control and super slick Steadicam moves since I graduated from film school. But as we all know, that shiz is expensive. And trying to convince a client to go that route on smaller budgets can be challenging. But now...now we're able to do some very cool things with gimbal tech, and miniaturized camera platforms to accommodate the miniaturized cams themselves. Hahaha. I love it.

Technology continues to march forward, making these tools more accessible. I recently purchased one of those turnkey Phantoms, and was instantly hooked -- now I'm scheduling practice fly time -- haha. Never thought I would be doing the RC thing, but here we are.

Your copter and vids are sick, Obin. Really nice work.

Best,

E
 
AndreasOberg said:
We are with you all the way Jim!
Because
- You push beyond the barriers because you can and do not accept less. It's so heart crushing when you realize that "other" cameras do not have a feature because the manufacturers were to comfortable selling mediocre quality.
- Your transparency to the customers that you treat more like your friends. I think you are showing exactly how a company should communicate with their customers
- You have a very complete package, new cool things are coming all the time.

I just tried the camera in the warmest and wettest rain forest and then up in the freeeeezing mountains riding snow scooters filming 5cm from the ground in full speed. Not a single problem, it just works.

Best wishes, we are with you.
/Andreas and Natalie
Click to expand...

+1

Could not agree more.
 
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