Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K over HDMI from Red Dragon ??

Bruce Schultz

Bruce Schultz

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
161
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Malibu, CA
I'm posting this here because it seems to be a place where this type of question could be relevant.

I finished a job using a sony f55 camera and production supplied a Dell 4K monitor which we were able to easily hook up to the camera's HDMI output and view UHD live.

My question is: why can't Red implement HDMI 1.4a or 2.0 features in the Dragon brain HDMI output connector? Red Ray and the 4K Pro module don't cut it for ease of use, setup and cost.
 
With the release of consumer 4k cameras like the GH4 I have been wondering the same thing. RED is releasing a 4K broadcast module but the price is $6.950,- and it only connects via 4 SDI connectors and adds bulk to the camera.

One thing I can imagine is that as the camera shoots in formats larger and smaller than 4k, debayering and scaling in realtime would be a challenge.
 
A 4k hdmi module would be awesome. We just need a 4k paralinx too.
 
Tricky thing with the RED DSMC system is that full RAW data is transferred within the camera and amongst the various modules. So a 4K HDMI module will still need to take the full resolution RAW stream and de-bayer and scale to a 4K image before encoding and sending out the HDMI. It makes the system infinitely configurable, but doesn't lend itself well to making affordable modules for common outputs. Hence why the +1 and other cheaper modules need to connect to the existing monitor outputs on the brain.

I was hoping that 4K HDMI output would come with the Dragon upgrade as part of the swapping of necessary components, but it seems that is something that couldn't be incorporated before the Dragon specification was finalized and readied for production.

I really wish the 4K Broadcast module also had an HDMI 2.0 port on it. Once again, HDMI 2.0 wasn't a final spec, nor were there any proper chipsets in sight, when the 4K Broadcast module was ready to go from prototyping to production.
 
Well they should make one now. ;)
 
I like the idea of a 2nd generation Broadcast Module that adds an HDMI2 spigot. The quad 3G SDI can be converted to HDMI easily enough, but the converter just adds cost/power consumption/etc.

With so many lower end UHD/4K cameras offering live UHD/4K monitoring out of the box...

Cheers - #19
 
Yeah its pretty crazy I can pipe 4k out of my GH4 that we bought for 1500.00 but can't get it out of my RED or anyone else without dropping some serious coin.
 
Blair S. Paulsen said:
I like the idea of a 2nd generation Broadcast Module that adds an HDMI2 spigot. The quad 3G SDI can be converted to HDMI easily enough, but the converter just adds cost/power consumption/etc.

With so many lower end UHD/4K cameras offering live UHD/4K monitoring out of the box...

Cheers - #19
Click to expand...

Agree! Let's see this modular architecture actually give us newer technology faster!!
 
I was looking at Jeff's comment on the +1 module and such and got to thinking....... Well My Pro I/O module doesn't need to be attached to the HDMI port on the the camera. I guess the Pro I/O has it's own Debayering thing a ma jiggy inside it! I really wish they would put something like that in a module (4K output... even is it is slightly compressed:)
 
Yep, the Pro I/O module does its own de-bayer and downsample to 1080p/2K. Also why it's a $3750 module. The 4K Broadcast module does the same, and outputs at 4K/ UHD in addition to 2K/1080p. I think we're all just saying it's unfortunate that an HDMI output was not included and it would be nice to see an updated model that has HDMI 2.x incorporated. They could definitely make an HDMI 2.x 4K output module and wile I don't want to speculate on price, I think it would be cheaper than the 4K Broadcast module and possibly more in line with the Pro I/O or even cheaper than it; as they could probably sell a lot of these.
 
The Broadcast module is a very welcome addition to the arsenal just as it is. SDI is the proper professional interconnect. To be clear - I am not complaining.

That said, when investing $7K in a module for live UHD output it would sure be nice to have a couple of HDMI 2.x ports on there in addition to the quad SDI to accommodate a variety of configurations and directly connect to the many HDMI only UHD devices on the market.

If further investment in Broadcast Module development is untenable due to limited sales forecasts I get that - just noting that it might find a larger audience with the HDMI taps, though it might still fall short of reasonable ROI.

Cheers - #19
 
I do wonder if it would be as simple to flash the camera with new software to be able to DeBayer and compress to 4k ProRes(or maybe even 5k ProRes 4444xqfor Scarlet-MX owners)...

Also, I imagine that if it was a +1 Module could record a compressed signal - on-top of it's normal RAW, that would be a huge time saver for Productions... Basically if the +1 Module could apply LUT + Record Native Codec = instant dailies(and go strait to Post)
 
Timing in relationship to product development, cameras, and modules has been a bit of the problem here.

HDMI 2.0 was finalized not too long ago. The 4K Broadcast Module and obviously the Dragon brain were in the pipe before the spec and hardware was finalized as well.

While I wouldn't put it past Red to design something with HDMI 2.0 included in a module, I imagine it would likely happen in the next brain or even possibly through a camera upgrade itself.
 
Just to remind you of something what RED previewed a while ago: tethered recording over Gig-E. There is lots of potential, with live monitoring and streaming in full-res(!) over a laptop being one of the possible applications. Transcoding to 4k on a computer, with ROCKET-power and realtime-colorgrading? Should be doable. ;)

Yeah, thats not a module, but maybe a even better solution for some scenarios.

I hope RED gives access to that via their SDK.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top