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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4K monitor out for Red Dragon

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Robert Berger

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Will there in the near by future a 4K monitor output (3G) for the Dragon (Epic)? More and more on set 4K monitors are coming!!
 
4k on set monitor. I like the sound of that.
 
Will Keir said:
4k on set monitor. I like the sound of that.
Click to expand...

ditto. If 1080p isn't good enough for deliverables or for future proofing, we should have 4k output for critical monitoring (minimum of 4kHD). Other cameras already have this option. How about it available through both HDMI and SDI as a user selectable option?
 
Brandon J.F. said:
3G-SDI doesn't support 4K. The cameras that offer 4k monitoring require 4 3G-SDI connections.

This thread talks more about it: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?97955-6G-SDI
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We would need the sdi ports changed out to 6G-SDI. Not sure how difficult that would be...
http://provideocoalition.com/atepper/story/blackmagic-ships-first-6g-sdi-products-to-simplify-4k-cabling
http://www.hd4pc.com/techblog/2013/04/21/4k-video-over-6g-sdi-connections/

How cool would that be to capture the 4K stream and record externally pre-compression. Now that would be one high detailed image considering your taking a 6K image and downsampling to 4K not to mention already in a codec of choice. That would be efficient.
 
It would definitely be cool and look great.

I don't think 6G-SDI is a standard yet. I think it's just a Black Magic thing.
 
Hdmi posible? It will kill my +1 module.... Wich i like very much!!
Sdi 4k?
 
Patrick Tresch said:
As a future hardware upgrade!!!
Why not, knowing RED's commitment to 4k (and beyond).
But I wonder if there is still enough room to put more hardware in the matchbox?


Patrick
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You would think it would be easier to output 4k than 1080p. Less downsampling, less processing. 6K to 4K seems easier than 6K to 1080p. But I'm not a programmer or engineer, I just shoot.
 
Blackmagic can do it, I'm sure red can and eventually will. I mean, it's 1 cable, and an industry standard locking one at that. Would be awesome.
 
Sony F55 has over 1.4 HDMI 4K out and over 4x 3G Sdi 4K too. Needful for live projection of 4K at Concerts or Formule 1 on big screens.
 
Robert Berger said:
Will there in the near by future a 4K monitor output (3G) for the Dragon (Epic)? More and more on set 4K monitors are coming!!
Click to expand...

Sounds like a waste of limited production budget resources. If you can't pull focus off 1080p, you really have a serious problem. On usual on-set monitor sizes, I doubt very many people could even tell the difference between even 720p and 1080p.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
Sounds like a waste of limited production budget resources. If you can't pull focus off 1080p, you really have a serious problem. On usual on-set monitor sizes, I doubt very many people could even tell the difference between even 720p and 1080p.
Click to expand...

You win the pessimistic Reduser award for sure.

You may not want it, but you don't dictate what others want. I'd love to view images in 4K on set. It makes sense for a lot of reasons...I don't have to justify them to you. You also must not be on narrative sets because I've seen displays up to 55 inches. The future is coming whether you care to jump onboard or not, doesn't mean we shouldn't push for progress. If 1080p is good for you, then by all means, don't view in 4K.
 
I'm with you, Matt.

We tout 4k to our corporate clients all we can. Then, they never even get to see the work in 4k. I'm hoping that a solution surfaces soon to allow us to at least show 4k on set so clients can see the difference...and know why they're paying more than just HD. ;-)

Thanks.

Kevin
 
Matt Ryan said:
Would be awesome if it could be sorted out before Dragon upgrades so cameras come out with an updated sdi port. Imagine that...
Click to expand...

+1 on that.
 
+1 for sure. I would pay for this before any other item. Remember when they said an HD video tap on a film camera was a waste? Well maybe 1080p is good enough for most people on set, but this is becoming a 4K+ world, so why not have the ability to monitor what you are shooting? On the bigger budget stuff, the agencies and clients would love it and it would help justify the need to shoot in 4K+ resolution. I'm sure it will happen sooner or later. Red has a LOT on their plate at the moment with so many announced products that still have to make it to market... but I do put my vote on this option when they can squeeze it in. Thanks in advance Red! ;)
 
FWIW, in the past, requests for UHD or 4K live output were met with the completely rational response - and what monitor are you planning to view the UHD or 4K signal on? Now its 2013 and RedUsers can actually answer that question. I'd say the ball is now in RED's court. Stuart...

Cheers - #19
 
At this point, the only logical argument against it, well two arguments as far as I'm concerned, are:

1> There is no proper on-set transport or interface for live 4K. It's either quad-SDI or HDMI with some small argument for DisplayPort. SDI is the only one capable of long runs with economical cables, but no one wants to wrangle 4 cables per monitor. Sure, we could start using a quad-coaxial cable that has all 4 in one sheathed cable, but then it's like dragging around a hose. Anyway, it would be a pain of sorts.

2> Monitors. Yes, there are 4K monitors shipping from several manufacturers now. Aside from SEIKI and Skyworth, no one is offering an HDTV type display under 50" right now. Sharp has their 32" UHD panel, also being sold under the DELL and ASUS labels and EIZO has their uber-expensive and rather bulky for its size 36" 4Kx2K monitor. SEIKI and Skyworth are shipping 39" panels. None of these scream out "on-set!!!" to me. If anywhere, they are a video village armchair directors' monitor or a critical check monitor for use in a blackout tent by the DIT or look manager.


Will we get 4K on-set monitoring. You betcha. But I don't think it's going to be in this round of upgrades. However, I would really hope that the Dragon upgrade at least includes HDMI 1.4a support and we could potentially get at least 4K / UHD output from the camera for playback. That would be my current hope and expectation. Beyond that, I really don't know what else to recommend because of the interface issue I've already mentioned. Quad-SDI on-set. Uh, no thanks. I don't want to be lugging around 32" and larger displays either. When I can get a 10~17 " lightweight 4K monitor that connects with a single cable that can run 50+feet, or better yet even have wireless abilities, then call me. Until then, I'm not interested. There are some tasks for which HD actually is "good enough"... At least for now.
 
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