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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4k / 2k PRO RES / DNxHD MODULE - who wants one.

we all want this thing but it's pretty clear Red said no to it as sound devices etc. made something similar.... but it's not! if it were integrated in the camera system as a module the epic would be perceived totally in another way. With all this thing hanging it looks soo much like a DSLR hack... make the module and you'll see the number of Epic double on day two and Alexa would be just an old bad dream. Unfortunately the fact is that Alexa rules on set. It was a huge mistake not making this module, or licensing it to someone else. Just saying.
 
Perception is a big thing in the film world. People acknowledge that the Epic and R1 are great camera's and shoot nice images, but they always also think of it as a difficult camera with transcoding and online/offline workflows etc. With the alexa the general feeling is, is that it's a dead simple camera outputting also really nice images. So the big thing for RED to win here is to make the Epic also a simple camera in people's mind.
90% of my works ends as a 1920x1080 Prores HQ file, so recording just a nice prores HQ file would be fine for simple stuff. Now i can't give that to people directly after a shoot, they have to transcode, then don't understand redcine, call me, get confused and next time just want to shoot alexa, because it's easier for them...that's how reality goes, and i have to fight to get the epic on a next job...

So it's not a problem of the Epic not being great and really easy if you know how it works, it's the problem with people who don't know how it works, and that are most of the time the people who pay me...but lucky there is a solution: A PRORES MODULE!!!! :)

A reaction from somebody from RED would also be really nice :)
 
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I would buy a ProRes/DnxHD module in a heartbeat.

Not only do external recorders add to the bulk and ruin the ergonomics of the camera - but with the output from Epic/Scarlet being framed with black borders, it makes any recorded files useful only as proxies. I have a KiPro Mini here collecting dust - would love to trade it out for a RED solution.
 
Another thing to consider is for this module to record 4k prores. Why not? For absolute best use r3d, for quick turn around 4k Prores . This would completely one up the Alexa regular workflow!
 
Sergio Perez said:
Another thing to consider is for this module to record 4k prores. Why not? For absolute best use r3d, for quick turn around 4k Prores . This would completely one up the Alexa regular workflow!
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Suggested here...

http://173.199.159.58/forum/showthr...-who-wants-one&p=931462&viewfull=1#post931462


PR 4444 at 4K would put it on the same level as the F65 (in terms of onboard recording) and give you 4X the resolution you can get out of the ALEXA.

and it would be future proof. GO ahead and finsh 1920x1080 but the files are still 4K.

This is the only module that would be useful for RED. Something that turns the RED into a 1920x1080 camera (from RED) is, it think, a bad idea. It's very immediate, but we all know that HD is already on the other side of teh bell curve.

David
 
David Battistella said:
Suggested here...

http://173.199.159.58/forum/showthr...-who-wants-one&p=931462&viewfull=1#post931462


PR 4444 at 4K would put it on the same level as the F65 (in terms of onboard recording) and give you 4X the resolution you can get out of the ALEXA.

and it would be future proof. GO ahead and finsh 1920x1080 but the files are still 4K.

This is the only module that would be useful for RED. Something that turns the RED into a 1920x1080 camera (from RED) is, it think, a bad idea. It's very immediate, but we all know that HD is already on the other side of teh bell curve.

David
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Agreed, keep it 4k ProRes, then scale to whatever flavor you want. This would also hold true to what the RED Camera Brand is, a 4k+ resolution camera...no matter how you record.

-Dane
 
This is a pride problem. 4K RAW was how the camera began, Jim declared all else insufficient... sadly for 95% of people, less it is still sufficient. Red would have to spend half a million to produce, then more to support, all for a module that cripples its native capabilities in the CEO's eyes...

I understand if it never comes out. But if Red were to release a module that delivers ProRes or DNxHD files at 4K resolution, with an easy re-link path for using the Raw for color grade later, everyone who buys the camera would buy the module. They could charge $3,000 each and people would still buy them.

The question is, do Jim & Co. want people showing off baked in footage and calling it Red?
 
Well this would stem up for a lot of F3/C300 stuff for sure.

It shouldn't cost "whatever" though, and one should be alowed to record "just" prores.

With RLF/RG3 as recording options.

I guess this won't ever happen, and RED already has a backorder issue... :)
But if the intended thing was to push the camera into all realms where it can really excell (not only "film" productions) this would be the thing to get out the door.

It should be 1080/2k/4k switchable, though.

1080 is a real possibility, as that's what the cam scales to already...

+ 10
 
Ruff said:
+1

Toia is on the money.

This would solve so many perceived and real Red problems.
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I applaud Mark's enthusiasm for a prores module, but this idea is not new. In fact, in the original proxy module thread here:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?43613-Proxy-Module

it only took 6 posts for someone to bring up the fact that Prores was a needed solution (and the first five were the usual "zomg RED is awesome!" replies). This was two years ago now. Even after the PIX came out, many people have pointed out that a RED-integrated solution that does much of the same thing as the PIX (albeit natively) would be a godsend on so many levels. The PIX is strong, but has some pretty major setbacks including not recording at the native aspect ratio and the inability to record offspeed material. Plus there's the fact that you have to jerryrig another device to the camera, deal with extra cables... it defeats the purpose of the modular system.

Like I stated in the proxy thread, we've been begging for something like this for ages but it goes against Jim's "RAW only" philosophy. The H.264 in the originally proposed module was meant more for the wifi capability as well as proxy creation, but certainly not as an online solution. While many would love the Prores files as an easy offline way to quickly and efficiently get cutting, there would also be plenty of people using the 1080 Prores files as the online, saving them the hassle of transcoding RAW files. Good or not is not for me to decide, but I don't think Jim wants people using his camera that way. I wager that's why we haven't seen something like this show up in the store.

Ironically, they've come out with a Canon lens mount that lets you put $100 plastic lenses on the Epic and have included 'crop' modes which can leave you with less-than-HD resolution digital negatives of your master material... so who knows. :)

Yes, I do believe they would sell a million of these, and yes, I think it would dramatically help their standing in the industry. I do admire Jim's conviction, though.
 
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Yes Please and i think RED is already working on it. Whispers they say and even give the hint on a email if you ask them to confirm.....
I have to fight agains Alexa's.......sometimes......
Epic-X "ED" 00274 and Red one "FRed" MX/SSD 1265
 
The ProRes 4444 module would be fantastic.

I have a Red Scarlet arriving next week, but there will be dozens of other jobs that I will have to shoot on my other Sony cameras in order to fit into the clients post workflow. I am also considering a C300 just to cater to these requests.

I would love to keep it all on my Red.

Some of my clients really appreciate and understand the Red Raw workflow, the majority see it as a PITA. It would be very good to be able to record both RAW and ProRes. Edit the ProRes, and finish ProRes if required. But have the RAWs there to conform at the end if the workflow and budget suits.

There are not enough Red Rockets in the Post Houses here, and a real reluctance to buy into it, especially if there are 10+ workstations. Also, the number of jobs being finished in Nuke is increasing. (I also hear of so many reliability problems from colleagues). It's just another thing that is required, and the clients look across at Arri, and ask me why Red needs this card...
 
Madjid El ayari said:
+1 for me : If only Jim or Jarred or someone in Charge from Red could say something about this modulke . That would be someting !!!
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I'm sure they are reading this thread... weather the are proactive to it is another story. All we can do is Pray.
 
I undertand red's view on 4K, but they are way ahead of the game. Yes people
start finishing 4K, yes 4k is going to come, but for now reality is i think 90% of the epic users shoot stuff that doesnt get finished in 4K... So for that 90% of the epic users that finish in 1080, another large part doesn't always need raw for all their shoots...and for those people a 1080 prores module would be great ans useable till 4k hits bigtime.

Epic is absolute futureproof, but for now we need a downgrade for the time being till clients start demanding 4K, and that downgrade would be as simple as a module recording prores :) maybe we could convince red to make this as a gesture to a huge user request :)
 
This is an interesting thread.

It's full of speculation and wanting. It's also full of imagination.

Pratically speaking:

A proxy module for h.264 was announced 2 years ago (no real mention of plans beyond that)
Kipro stops starts carries TC and clip information over Hd sdi.
Pix recorder does a similar thing.
A codec needs to be licenced by the manufacturer of the device.
As we learned from the quad battery module and other pieces, each thing that attaches to the camera has to go through design phase, testing phase, redesign and ultimately FCC approval (which can take a long time)

So, putting all philosophical arguments aside, If I'm RED, do I pour my resources and RD toward a 1080p or "baked in" solution so that users have the choice to completely abandon RAW or throw it away after the shoot? (rhetorical) do I say, "yeah, we're all about RAW 4k and now 5k but we should our program switch gears and provide what the F65 and ALEXA are offering? Would that serve my customers or prove I was wrong?

One thing is important. All data from these cameras needs to hit another hard drive first. Footage from RED or F65 needs to hit a backup stage. A professional way of working. The big difference right now is that with one file you have complete and utter control of every aspect of the negative and with the others you do not. Period. One is baked in, one us not.

Personally I will take the RAW ten times out of Ten.

This is why I say that RED might be better off moving toward the future, like they tend to do.

We don't need a proxy module, we need this.

Redrocket 2. Price 995.

Comes in a sleek red enclosure.
Half size pci card
thunderbolt cconnectivity
plug it into your laptop
plug it into your desktop
plug it into your iiMac
real time 4k and 5k wherever you are

Work to enable rocket support in all NLE's and QuickTime player across Mac, Linux and windows platforms.
Work toward making RCX the easiest way to interface with any NLE.

A camera module is short term thinking.
if we had REDPOST, a box like the one described above every camera owner would have one, every post house would have one.
We need a long term affordable post solution to stop the naysaying.

Not a camera module that will be good for ten months. Use the Kipro until the REDPOST module shows up.
 
You guys sure are making it more and more difficult for us to adhere to the vow we made late last year of not talking about products till they are ready to be released :)

heh heh heh....

until then.. there are a handful of great 3rd party products that create nice Pro-Res and DNXhd files that bolt to the back of the camera that let you record both RGB and your 5K raw files. The "record friendly" feed will be coming in not the build that is coming next week, but the build after.
 
Jarred Land said:
You guys sure are making it more and more difficult for us to adhere to the vow we made late last year of not talking about products till they are ready to be released :)

heh heh heh....

until then.. there are a handful of great 3rd party products that create nice Pro-Res and DNXhd files that bolt to the back of the camera that let you record both RGB and your 5K raw files. The "record friendly" feed will be coming in not the build that is coming next week, but the build after.
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YES! YES! This was where we were waiting for!! The famous "heh heh heh", made my day this post, can't come fast enough, great work jarred!! I think mark whil be doing a happy dance also now :)
 
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