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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

4.7 touch screen placement, and hidden costs for Raven

Demetri Zuev said:
Beware that it has a mini-SDI connector and the fan is rather loud sometimes.
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Loud fans must be a running theme with BMD. :) Their Ultrastudio 4k is so loud.

Björn Benckert said:
I think a lot of dragon users will get rid of the included XL modules, just as they did for the quad modules and module adaptors that came in the package when upgrading from red one to epic.
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I paid for the XL module on the EPIC, so I was happy to get it for free on the Weapon. They are nothing like the quad module that was included in the EPIC bundle. But, if you don't use, or plan to use, XL batteries, then it will be of little use for you.
 
See that's the funny thing about perspective, I was unaware of both of these monitors. The BM looks like a no brainer, and anything without SDI is useless to me. I mean flat out useless.

Nick
 
I really worry about the brightness, and the possibility of failure, obviously the no SDI is a killer, the 502 is out of the price range. i dunno, the BMD monitors i have seen are not very bright and seem un usable in day light. besides im not planning on using either of those monitors with my set up, and is off the topic of this thread @@
 
Matthew Quinn said:
i dunno, the BMD monitors i have seen are not very bright and seem un usable in day light.
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You will most likely want a hood, such as Hoodman. I have used a Hoodman on both the 5" and 7" RED touch LCDs. Now I use the Grid 7.0, which is even better. With the SmallHD 502, you would probably just get its add on.

RED hinted about their own solution for the 4.7" as far as hoods go sometime back.

Matthew Quinn said:
besides im not planning on using either of those monitors with my set up, and is off the topic of this thread
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The reason I even mentioned the SmallHD (501) was for gimbal work since that was one of your topics. I use the 7" touch for normal use and may take it off and use a 501 for gimbal work on something like the Letus Helix Jr. I can see using the Jetpack Expander w/ 501 as itss a nice combo.
 
BM video assist is actually a very good monitor not only for the price but period. I find it brighter and sharper than the original Red Touch 5 inch monitor and the build quality is pretty solid. If I was going the SmallHD route I have my eye on the 702.
 
I don't know whether this could be comparable... but, why not?

I am gonna just throw it. Hidden cost for poorman's budget.

Red Raven

$10k

You are shooting feature film, 17-20 days constantly, you want to finish your project with 4.5k WS.

1. Battery (Ebay - cheapo chinese battery 230 wh x2) = 600$ -

You need at least of 6-8 hours of running time battery power. (98wh for 1 and a half hour... it means you need at least 2x 230wh)

2. Memory card (2x 256, 2x512, 2x 128 or 1TB)

512GB = 158 min (about 2 and a half hour footage on 8:1 - If you want quality, go for 3:1 and shoot 58min instead)

-It will cost you around 2k-5k depends on how you manage it. (In my case, I chose one 512, because the package comes with 128, and I think our DIT could back up the files, while I am shooting on 128, 512) = 2450

You need at least two cards for swapping the cards while your DIT constantly backs up your footages or back up the cards constantly... (I used to use 4x 64 on scarlet 3:1, and it was a nightmare)

3. Iphone or ipad mini($200-1000)
I think, using Ipad for Foolcontrol is almost necessity of using weapon system...

4. Rig system (0$-5000)

... I don't know, some of us don't want to make the camera heavy, so I wouldn't put specific price on it.

5. audio (0$-6000)

Cheap - Internal microphone costs you 0$

Mid range - Dr70d(250$) + V mount bracket(250$) + 1/8 output aux($5) + ME66+k6 400$ = 905$

Fancy internal recording - Redvolt expender($3950) + 416 Industry standard shot gun($1200) = 5150$ - If you chose this option, you can actually same some bucks from buying base I/O option, but i don't know how much that would cost you.

6. Matte box or ND FILTER ($250-5000$)

.... No internal ND, therefore, you "must" invest on ND filter.

Fade ND 82mm(77mm...) $150-500$

Matte box + Good IRND sets = $1000 - $5000)

Including the camera costs, you need to spend following price range.

extreme poor situation - $10600 (Yes, you are shooting 13:1 at 4k ws, you might get away with... 128gb, and what you need is just V mount battery)

It's okay package - $13300 (Including camera price)

You invested only battery and memory cards - Hire sound dude. You are using Fade ND- Aware that your ND filter might ruin your picture. At least you can shoot 6:1 4k ws, or some 3:1.

Full production ready package (Almost rental package) - $ 25k-35K

You have enough memory cards to shoot on 3:1 4kWS, You have awesome quality battery that never fails on you, You have amazing matte box that you can even use it almost forever, Your camera look good on your rig, you've got new IPAD 128GB for just operating your camera!! awesome!! You have Two XlR inputs in your camera and amazingly... you don't have to sync the sound if you connect your sound. - It doesn't mean that you don't need a sound dude :)

Okay...

When I just write this post, I just realized my self that how cheap FS7/FS5 price range is, on the other hand how expensive C300 mk2 is.
I think if you are getting Raven, You really need to invest on memory cards anyway, and battery system, ND filter options.

Raven came out really nice price range.. I am so happy to purchasing it... But I guess I need to make extra bucks to cover more memory cards...

Ugh... 8K will cost me more isn't it :)?
 
Björn Benckert said:
Agree, if you plan on doing one film and budget is tight then buying the gear to do it, is probably not the best idea.
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unless you can live off pasta until the next gig. my first feature basically payed for my epic, was poor for that month, but production fed me and stuff hehe
 
I've seen a few forum posts regarding the inability to fold down the LCD with a handle attached, which is unfortunate. But what about just general operation? I mean, this pic shows a 7" touch with a handle that obscures part of the screen. The I/O package includes a 5" touch and a top handle. From what I can tell, with the smaller LCD, the handle will obstruct the majority of the screen, making the two potentially incompatible together (especially when filming at a downward angle, where the LCD is tilted backwards, rather than forward).

Am I missing something, or does including these two items in a package not make any sense? lol

(I would have posted a pic of a handle with a 5" touch, but I can't find any... possibly with good reason)

weapon-of-choice.png
 
I think what you're seeing there is the DSMC2 Top Handle, which is different than the one that comes with either of the Raven packages. There are other ways to mount the LCD, however.
 
Matt Hall said:
I think what you're seeing there is the DSMC2 Top Handle, which is different than the one that comes with either of the Raven packages. There are other ways to mount the LCD, however.
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True, but I can't imagine the package handle to be significantly smaller, to the point that it no longer obstructs the LCD (especially when filming at a downward angle). Also the package handle has 1/4-20 mounts all over it, so anything mounted will make the situation even worse.

The 5" clearly folds up and down, but doesn't seem to rotate like the 7" version. That's unfortunate, as otherwise we would be able to attach the LCD to the side connector, flip it up, and then rotate 90 degrees so that it's right side up facing the operator (basically in the same position as the standard top mount, but off to the side and out of the way of the handle).

Which leads me to ask, can the 7" fit in this config, or is it too large and would hit into the side of the handle?
 
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Björn Benckert said:
Whats wrong with the BM?
I agree with Nick a hdmi solution is no solution.

That BM recording function also comes handy. Thinking of getting one as a wireless Dir monitor together with bolt reciver.
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I just returned mine today after I realised there is no sdi flag recording with the unit. Time code rec only, so the file names won't carry over. I was thinking of using it as a proxy recorder
 
Nathan DuMoulin said:
I've seen a few forum posts regarding the inability to fold down the LCD with a handle attached, which is unfortunate. But what about just general operation? I mean, this pic shows a 7" touch with a handle that obscures part of the screen. The I/O package includes a 5" touch and a top handle. From what I can tell, with the smaller LCD, the handle will obstruct the majority of the screen, making the two potentially incompatible together (especially when filming at a downward angle, where the LCD is tilted backwards, rather than forward).

Am I missing something, or does including these two items in a package not make any sense? lol

(I would have posted a pic of a handle with a 5" touch, but I can't find any... possibly with good reason)

weapon-of-choice.png
Click to expand...

I think you are missing my original intent on this thread. the probelm is not how the handle is, the problem is when you put this thing on your shoulder your face will not be able to see the monitor. with the monitor run to the handle grips of your rig with a cable you can mix it up, and be able to position the monitor in more ways
 
Nathan DuMoulin said:
I've seen a few forum posts regarding the inability to fold down the LCD with a handle attached, which is unfortunate. But what about just general operation? I mean, this pic shows a 7" touch with a handle that obscures part of the screen. The I/O package includes a 5" touch and a top handle. From what I can tell, with the smaller LCD, the handle will obstruct the majority of the screen, making the two potentially incompatible together (especially when filming at a downward angle, where the LCD is tilted backwards, rather than forward).

Am I missing something, or does including these two items in a package not make any sense? lol

(I would have posted a pic of a handle with a 5" touch, but I can't find any... possibly with good reason)

weapon-of-choice.png
Click to expand...

I'm one of the few I guess who's seen the 4.7" LCD up close, it does indeed fold down flat, which is nice. If you have any Top Handle mounted in front there it will not do that as it's in the way. I believe the DSMC2 Outrigger handle however allows for the 4.7" to fold down completely and still remain attached.

The DSMC2 7.0" Touch doesn't fold down all the way over the body as well more to protect the larger surface area of the screen. However, it does lay flat if mounted to the side cableless connector.

To Matthew's original post, yes this is something we deal with pretty much on every camera these days. What seems to be most common and popular is the use of a Noga arm/RED Arm or something similar. You would need to use the Lemo Adapters to pull this off with the new tech. You also have the SDI or HDMI possibility.

You can additionally go with the new DSMC2 EVF which does mount where it should, though you'll want to balance your rig as usual. I use the Clutch in a nice way with the shoulder pad attached to the dovetail, which works great.
 
Phil Holland said:
I'm one of the few I guess who's seen the 4.7" LCD up close, it does indeed fold down flat, which is nice. If you have any Top Handle mounted in front there it will not do that as it's in the way. I believe the DSMC2 Outrigger handle however allows for the 4.7" to fold down completely and still remain attached.

The DSMC2 7.0" Touch doesn't fold down all the way over the body as well more to protect the larger surface area of the screen. However, it does lay flat if mounted to the side cableless connector.

To Matthew's original post, yes this is something we deal with pretty much on every camera these days. What seems to be most common and popular is the use of a Noga arm/RED Arm or something similar. You would need to use the Lemo Adapters to pull this off with the new tech. You also have the SDI or HDMI possibility.

You can additionally go with the new DSMC2 EVF which does mount where it should, though you'll want to balance your rig as usual. I use the Clutch in a nice way with the shoulder pad attached to the dovetail, which works great.
Click to expand...

have you tried the new evf Phil? I dream about owning it almost every night
 
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