Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

3 weeks...

I've been tucking away my savings for Scarlet since mid '09. Now the time has finally come, I'm freaking the hell out... It's like a figment of my imagination is about to manifest IRL.
 
Never out of back order is good for RED and good for those who believed in the beginning. Ill bet that some cameras will ship or be ready to ship on Nov. 3rd...Ill also bet that will be the largest traffic day ever on Reduser.net and RED.com
Im going to get my check book ready and on standby.
 
Jannard said:
November 3rd will likely be the single most important announcement in RED's history. Don't miss it... even if you never intend on buying a camera.

Jim
Click to expand...

EPIC-M is all the camera that I need right now...and what a camera it is!

But I'll step up and take a ticket for the peepshow into the future. Don't forget your top hat and cane, Jim.
 
Jannard said:
3 weeks to go... and things have already changed several times since the date was announced. Exciting! I can't wait to see where we end up on Nov. 3rd.

Jim
Click to expand...

I'm freaking out! Just kiddin'... sort of. Got my finger on the trigger to purchase already!

I'm wondering if these changes are going to be perceptible to the user, or bug fixes, software streamlining, etc?
 
Jarred Land said:
Edwin Land said it best... " Market research is what you do when your product isn’t any good "
Click to expand...
D Fuller said:
And the late Steve Jobs said, "It's not the consumer's job to know what they want."
Click to expand...
Having worked for several companies in my life, I have seen both, repeatedly. Glad Red is wise enough to not do either. Also hope Red keeps their assembly in the USA, and forever remains private. Witness: SAS of North Carolina. The best company in the US to work for. I hope Red some day reaches that level.

Sorry for the diversion. Carry on.
 
Jannard said:
3 weeks to go... and things have already changed several times since the date was announced. Exciting! I can't wait to see where we end up on Nov. 3rd.

Jim
Click to expand...
If a martian would come to earth now, he would report home that in this planet there's a master of teasing! :D

A Canon rep would report that the company must fill out anything to get him indoor...

LOL (E ;-)
 
Eric Z said:
What if the new Scarlet design was more like a Contour Plus, only slightly larger to accommodate a 2/3" sensor?
Small, rugged, wicked fast up to 3K@120fps, x8 optical zoom with f/2.0-2.8, and can even be mounted to a helmet.

One can only dream...
Click to expand...

My motorcycle video's would be smokin'!!
 
Jannard said:
after our November 3rd announcement... we will never, ever, be out of back-order. Ever. Really. Never... ever.
Jim
Click to expand...

Wow, finally, after four years,
some will be pissed :)
but very smart!
and yeah, it will never get out of backordered
 
Damn. In a good way.

OK, so... framing my thoughts:

The Epic exists. It costs $28.000. No sense in making an other $20.000 camera.

So < $15.000 it is. That's about half the price of an Epic and probably OK lineup wise. But who is this camera for? 15 grand is not pocket change to most of us, and it's definitely PRO territory. Well, that is who RED is catering to, so all is good there. But if you are an established PRO making money to sustain your business, wouldn't you just as well buy an Epic? It might take a few months of work (or just a few days?) to make up for the extra cost, but it seems like a no brainer investment.

But more importantly: what could RED do to the Epic brain to cut its price in half? I'm turning this over and over in my head and come up with only few options. You can't really cut down on accessories because everyone will need a display and batteries and such, and you'd then only have to add this cost on top. No, the difference would have to be the brain itself. Hmmm. Let's start cutting!

No HDRx, no high frame rates, no super high quality (low compression) REDcode. Knock resolution down to 4k.

You'd end up with a 4k RED camera, S35 sensor, shooting 60 fps REDRaw. Lens mount of your choice. If you take that <------ , how would that hold its own among Sonys and Canons? (It would do very well)

Although it would "sort of" fit in the lineup, and not step on Epic owner's toes, it doesn't quite mach up with Jim's statements of late. I realize I trimmed the Epic down quite a bit, but how similar to the Epic can RED allow a $15.000 camera be? There's a reason the Epic-S isn't out or "just around" the corner. The proposed version was way too powerful and way too cheap.

Still... I feel that the $15.000 price point is a semi-weak market. These customers aren't paying a "Hollywood premium", but still demand a feature complete product. If you give them a good enough product at this price, it has GOT TO cannabalize the higher end products. I feel that RED is about making the best possible product. They've got that in the Epic. Epic is the real PRO camera.

You can't make two cameras and call both "best possible", UNLESS you target two different markets- or customer groups. To me $15.000 and $50.000 is the same group. But the $5.000 crowd is a different beast. And MUCH, MUCH bigger market.

So make a 2/3" camera. It would never be confused with the S35, and people "on the cheap" couldn't replace Epics with this. RED's challenge here is that in my opinion 2/3" can not really be pitched as a stills camera.

And: let's not fuzz over this, but the whole world is de facto turning towards larger sensors. It would seem illogical for RED to try and put a 2/3" sensor product into the $10.000+ market. Even if it's 3k. And once again, it would quite match Jim's statements.

Enter this:

4k S35 Brain, lens mount of choice, CF-module, onboard audio, only basic connectivity, 5.5" LCD, SideGrip, battery and charger. Price $7500.

This is the perfect camera for aspiring Pros. Base package is 4k@96-120 fps brain, but with CF-module you get 2k@60 fps. For full res and speed, go with optional (build to order) SSD. If you need HD-SDI and whatnot, buy the optional I/O module.

This would be a camera you could take home, charge and start to use (slap on a 50mm 1.8 mkII Canon for $30, if you want) . 2k and CF-module means no special graphics card, no 15 bay HD RAIDs to view a couple of minutes of footage.

4k S35 performs beautifully for both photos and film. Price point and performance would be a true sensation.

SUMMARY:

Needs to have

  • S35, or bigger sensor (for motion and STILLS)
  • 4k, or higher max res (for motion and STILLS)
  • take "normal" lenses, e.g. Canon.
  • Record to cheap media
  • REDcode RAW that can be edited on a normal computer (through REDcine X)
 
How about a new generation sensor in the smaller 4k Red 1M format? 22mm wide APSC size. Red has plenty of hardware and software experience with this particular format from the original M sensor model so development cost would be lower. Smaller and cheaper to produce than EPIC sensor, could be made on the same fab process. They could possibly even use cut down Epic sensor rejects for better yields from the wafers. 9Mp rather than Epic's 14Mp so not direct competition, but more than enough to meet the competition from other large sensor production cameras head on. With half the processing power of Epic you could still hit 30fps with HDRx and 60fps without at 4k, maybe a little better even. 120fps or better at 2k like Red 1. Better resolution for DSMC stills support too.
With their new efficient modular mass production design Red should be able to do this with a bare brain price in the original projected Scarlet S35 range of around $7k. A full up rig with modules to match the features of R1 would be around the original body price of $17.5k
Seems like that would tick all the right boxes for the current market especially if they could keep a bare bones shooting package under $10k out of the box with a Canon electronic mount. Potential sales volume on something like that just might make it possible.
 
JIM MALLON said:
Sometimes it seems like Red is a movement more than a company. Exciting idea that those in the leadership aren't sure exactly how things might develop and how far things can be pushed and are kind of running alongside the development. Though I'm sure people are now dreaming big in a focused way at RED. I never heard any company let alone a camera company sound like this.
Click to expand...

Well Apple would be another one.
 
Jannard said:
My bet is that after our November 3rd announcement... we will never, ever, be out of back-order. Ever. Really. Never... ever.

Jim
Click to expand...

Wow.

Very big words, very big bet! So many machines / machinists ordered?
If there is one guy out there I'd expect to I can trust such words - its you!

Without being picky - Jarred just announced late november backorder fulfilment. Does it fit together?

If you then have a keynote on Nov. 3rd together with Scarlet Johannson to present the camera, I'll remain fully speechless, signing orders ;-)

Pressing thumbs,
Axel
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top