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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

13th responses here...

first of all i think what the red team is trying to do is amazing for the industry as a whole and if/when i reach a point of being able to spend alot more money on gear i am going to be investing heavily with red modularity.

having said that, i have to admit i'm somewhat disappointed and confused by this announcement.

i was amazed by the original scarlet announcement. 3k for 3k that would come ready to shoot out of the box. it was going to have the most badass fixed lens ever on a camera and shoot 180fps in burst and have audio capabilities.

last night all of that got tossed up into the air and now i'm not sure if that still exists or how much its going to end up costing.

i know jim has always taken care of us and i have to believe they are still shooting for the 3k pricepoint, but looking at the accessories it seems like if its 2,500 base for a brain, when you add a 28-250 zoom lens, controls, lcd, audio capabilites?... its got to be getting into the 5k range, right?.. atleast?

so in a sense all this announcement has done for those hoping for the original scarlet is tac an additional $2000?+ onto the price of what was going to be a 3k for 3k camera?? .. is there any other way to see this? ..not exactly the grand announcment i was hoping for..

..perhaps in all the excitement jim and the red team didn't realize they've taken the original scarlet and replaced it with a ? and TBD...
 
So how did you guys find the presents under the tree when you woke up?

I just woke up from saying up till 5am lol... and though I was probably one of the few that didn't drink I somehow have a headache... dreamed about shooting a movie with one of these monsters a little too hard.

I can't wait to see what you guys do with the 645 and to see if some of you venture into the 617 territory! Maybe Lord of the Rings needs a 4th installment!
 
znelson said:
How (technically) do you gain DR by doing this? And could you explain how you'd lose DR by doing the opposite?

I can't see the connection between DR and the number of frames - isn't DR on a per-frame basis?
Click to expand...

It's per frame basis - but in this case "source" and "destination" frames have a different DR.

Averaging two frames together A) reduces the amount of noise in half, or B) increases usable dynamic range by one stop (or any combination of the two).

Reducing noise without adding dynamic range is simple - the two images are mixed together, which maintains actual brightness changes, but averages out half of the random noise variation. This naturally also means more information can be extracted from the image without too much apparent noise, but it doesn't add "true" precision or DR. The exposure time doubles but brigthness does not change. In video camera terms, this is actually the same thing as a 6dB gain reduction.

If you need more dynamic range, you can add the brightness values of the images together in a high dynamic range capable compositor, making images twice as bright. It's actually the exact same thing as using twice as long shutter speed - but as the software is able to hold brightness values over 100%, you do not get clipping. Think of it like this: you have the ability to get the best parts of two shutter speeds - in this case highlights from 1/96 and shadows from 1/48. Or in other words, you have an extra stop of dynamic range.

Simplified: Let's assume you have an image that can hold 100 lightness values ranging from 1 to 100. When you take another similar frame and add the brightness values to the previous one, you have a linear image that can have 200 brightness values from 1 to 200, maintaining the same precision but with twice the brightness info.
 
finally made to through all 186 pages. All I can say is ... WoooooW!

I think I'm going with the 6K EPIC FF35 with Monstro sensor, but that one is over 2 years away. Guess I'll also need some of those RED Electronic FF35 format lenses too. I just hope it isn't too much hassle to change the RED-Mount to PL Mount for when regular cine lenses are needed (ie. rentals).
 
man, i'm sorry i decided to check out the unveiled plans for scarlet/epic in a public place (apple store)...i'm doing my best to limit the use of expletives. i mean, there are kids around!

jim & co. - incredible work, incredible vision. not at all regretful about purchasing my red one, definitely excited about a sensor upgrade. that said, i love the ability to pick and choose and modify your camera to one's own liking. light years ahead of the rest. bravo.

cheers,
clint
 
DreamsInRed said:
Though I'm not sure (and there's probably more to it than this) The Epic FF35 can shoot up to 100 fps (vs the Scarlet 30fps) and the Epic uses the Redcode 225 codec (vs the Scarlet Redcode 42). Those seem to be the primary differences right now. Whether or not that's enough to justify the price difference....there's probably more too it than that?

Doug
Click to expand...

Also wondering if there's more too that. That's a pretty big price difference.
 
Halsu said:
Simplified: Let's assume you have an image that can hold 100 lightness values ranging from 1 to 100. When you take another similar frame and add the brightness values to the previous one, you have a linear image that can have 200 brightness values from 1 to 200, maintaining the same precision but with twice the brightness info.
Click to expand...

Ahh - this makes sense. Assuming there's enough bandwidth for the DR which now doubled from a ceiling of 100 to 200.

Very cool!
 
I want to get the $2,500 Scarlet with a RED mount, but I want the lens from the fixed lens version. Does anyone know if that lens will be available separately? I don't see it on the list, but it'd be a perfect counterpart to a set of primes.
 
Fan video of images?

Fan video of images?

Hey Jim or Jarred or anyone on RED TEAM -

Is it okay for us (me) to download the images and put together fan videos based on inspiration and upload them to youtube?

I'm fired up with inspiration and want to put these wicked renders to music / edit.

Do I have permission?

thanks

Dillon T
 
dillont said:
Hey Jim or Jarred or anyone on RED TEAM -

Is it okay for us (me) to download the images and put together fan videos based on inspiration and upload them to youtube?

I'm fired up with inspiration and want to put these wicked renders to music / edit.

Do I have permission?

thanks

Dillon T
Click to expand...

Dillon - cut together a nice sequence set to the Divinyl's tune "When I Think About You, I Touch Myself"...
 
A suggestion for Red.com.

A page that allows the potential customer to select modules from a list.

A graphic of the selected configuration is displayed marking out weight distribution, centre of gravity, price of components and a running total.
Maybe suggestions on battery configurations to drive any powered components?
Suggestions on cabling?

This graphic doesn’t need to be in 3d but a turntable view would be ‘sex on a stick’ ;-)
If I was really going to make a Java jockey sweat, maybe a Red camera ‘construction set’ where 3d pieces could be moved around, attachment points would ‘snap’ together.
Configuration problems could be sorted virtually.
 
Wish to see one day a smaller Scarlet "brain" (not 5.2" height, and 2x the weight of a Nikon or Canon) with an integrated-back EVF to really compete with DSLR system...
 
So I guess true professionals and high-end users are just ecstatic, and rightly so: an investment of several tens of thousands of dollars into the new Red cameras sounds like a very wise and future-proof plan with all this incredible modularity.

But when Jim gets up after the well-deserved 16 hours of sleep... and skims through the posts (or has someone give him an executive summary)... and gets over the audacity of some of the posters who still want more information...

I guess one of the first things he might want to do would be to talk a bit about his current plans concerning the $3,000, out-of-the-box Scarlet... Which would probably end up as one massive revenue generator for Red, if ever implemented.

I mean, there are only so many serious pros who can afford to pay $20,000 for a system. Not that Red cannot make a killing on those guys, but $3,000 is a figure that should recruit lots and lots of new customers. People who had been eyeballing Sony or Panasonic camcorders, shaking their heads at the lack of any passable semipro equipment at an affordable price point.
 
JDHolloway said:
Crop on 6k 35FF epic would render sub 4 k output wouldn't it? 6K/1.6=3.75...
still get the DR though...
Click to expand...

You got it - the Monstro is the way Red can deliver a sensor with more dynamic range - with 6 micron pixels.
So they are passing over this option of S35, and are talking up the positives of a new motion picture format to deliver the promised pixels.

For now, I'd rather have a slightly sub-4k S35 image (there will be less resolution than a Red One for the same sensor area, which did have, after all, RESOLUTION TO BURN), with the benefit of Monstro's added dynamic range.
Red's "S35" area could be larger than the Red One's, so resolution wouldn't need to take much of a hit
I wouldn't mind getting that S35 image off a cropped FF35 sensor, with it's anamorphic and FF options!

Also, what's with the S35" sensor area of 30mm x 15mm?
That's 2:1!!!!
So epic adds extra width, but almost no extra Height.
It won't be a 5k camera if you're shooting 16:9.
 
I haven't seen any discussion of the varying DOF across the brains... any ideas?

Is it safe to say that even the fixed lens Scarlet (2/3" sensor) will produce "movie-like" DOF?
 
fannyslacks said:
first of all i think what the red team is trying to do is amazing for the industry as a whole and if/when i reach a point of being able to spend alot more money on gear i am going to be investing heavily with red modularity.

having said that, i have to admit i'm somewhat disappointed and confused by this announcement.

i was amazed by the original scarlet announcement. 3k for 3k that would come ready to shoot out of the box. it was going to have the most badass fixed lens ever on a camera and shoot 180fps in burst and have audio capabilities.

last night all of that got tossed up into the air and now i'm not sure if that still exists or how much its going to end up costing.

i know jim has always taken care of us and i have to believe they are still shooting for the 3k pricepoint, but looking at the accessories it seems like if its 2,500 base for a brain, when you add a 28-250 zoom lens, controls, lcd, audio capabilites?... its got to be getting into the 5k range, right?.. atleast?

so in a sense all this announcement has done for those hoping for the original scarlet is tac an additional $2000?+ onto the price of what was going to be a 3k for 3k camera?? .. is there any other way to see this? ..not exactly the grand announcment i was hoping for..

..perhaps in all the excitement jim and the red team didn't realize they've taken the original scarlet and replaced it with a ? and TBD...
Click to expand...

I think you have to see it as in what they're offering.

You can still get a fully functional Scarlet for $2500 and it gets even better, it's with interchangeable lenses. The one with lens and all seems to be even less of a cost. So you can get a 3K camera for nothing but if you want more you have to pay for it and then you will, literally, get more.

It's interesting how greedy we instantly become :biggrin: and how badly we want the best.

Well you know what they say... you pay for the best.
 
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