1.8" SSD Module

[Curran Giddens]

not sure why we would ever shoot on cards now -

I feel the same way.

 

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I wonder what normal people in this world would think of us if they stumbled across this thread somehow by accident..

Not sure if they would be impressed by the amount of passion that one can have over a safety latch for a memory card , or instead if they would be absolutely horrified by the amount of passion that one can have over a safety latch for a memory card ..

heh heh heh. I love you guys.

WE ARE freaks first of all hehehe
normal people doesnt run 30000 usd shooting days.
i'l go probably cf cards.
isnt it easy to do it right this way?
handheld mode in tiny spaces will be a problem with this
module.
i'll hope the can redesign it and do it proper.
thought tatoo is for cases like this.
so for me its 64 gb and wait for another module.

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

I wonder what normal people in this world would think of us if they stumbled across this thread somehow by accident..

"What are these guys rambling about?...You just grab a camera and shoot...What's the price of a video ? Just shoot me this and this like that and just connect the shots...Make it look like this...Why does it cost that much? Why doesn't "FINAL MASTER" play on my laptop?"

 

[Dane Henry]

" Why doesn't "FINAL MASTER" play on my laptop?"

classic...

 

[Steve Gibby]

not sure why we would ever shoot on cards now -

There are many mobile genres of the huge non-hardlined EFP production industry which for reasons of safety, mobility, security, and utility simply require the smallest camera configurations possible. As you know, me and my crews specialize in those types of genres. I see us definitely having the 1.8 SSD and module for certain more stationary production sequences, but regularly using CF cards for the real mobile work. The cool thing is that with the R3D quality options and increased storage capacity of CF, longform programming field acquisition is now a reality with a lightweight CF card camera setup.

If there was an option for a camera body itself SSD slot, where the CF slot is, then I'd abandon CF for mobile non-hardlined EFP production, and simply go with the SSD slot. But AFAIK that isn't in the plans, so I'll go with setups of CF for hyper-mobile production, and SSD for moderately mobile and stationary production scenarios.

The media decision factor for mobile non-hardlined EFP crews, since we shoot a lot of high frame rate production, will be to analyze the bit rate, frame rate, and mobility needs of each day's shooting and select between CF and SSD accordingly.

Many of the crews that do extensive DSMC work, actually using these new cameras to regularly shoot motion and stills, will also need the lightest and smallest camera setups possible. They will mostly go with a setup of CF, the Side Handle, and the Bottom Handle - not an SSD + SSD module setup.

The great thing is that Red is giving us many media options which really enhance the utility and modularity of these new cameras :thumbsup:

 

[Christopher Nagel]

1.8" REDSTATION reader : $250

1.8" ssd module : $1500

128gb 1.8" redmag $1500

What is the general stance towards using off-the-shelf storage products? Is the technology closed such that it'd require reverse engineering to determine pin-outs, or does the module use a standard eSATA connector?

Just curious, not trying to be coy...

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Ketch Rossi]

There are many mobile genres of huge non-hardlined EFP production industry which for reasons of safety, mobility, security, and utility simply require the smallest camera configurations possible. As you know, me and my crews specialize in those types of genres. I see us definitely having the 1.8 SSD and module for certain more stationary production sequences, but regularly using CF cards for the real mobile work. The cool thing is that with the R3D quality options and increased storage capacity of CF, longform programming field acquisition is now a reality with a lightweight CF card camera setup.

If there was an option for a camera body itself SSD slot, rather than the CF slot, then I'd abandon CF for mobile non-hardlined EFP production, and simply go with the SSD slot. But AFAIK that isn't in the plans, so I'll go with setups of CF for hyper-mobile production, and SSD for moderately mobile and stationary production scenarios.

The media decision factor for me and my crews, since we shoot a lot of high frame rate production, will be to analyze the bit rate, frame rate, and mobility needs of each day's shooting and select between CF and SSD accordingly.

Many of the crews that do extensive DSMC work, actually using these new cameras to regularly shoot motion and stills, will also need the lightest and smallest camera setups possible. They will mostly go with CF, the Side Handle, and the Bottom handle - and no SSD/SSD module setup.

The great thing is that Red is giving us many media options which really enhances the utility and modularity of these new cameras :thumbsup:

Well said Steve ;~)

Even if very different form your needs, I look to truly take the Epic-X out and about just like I would take any MF camera, for any day or commercial Still Photography Job, but with the incredible added R3D capacity to shoot 5K Motion, this will bring added possibilities with the new found mobility, so I look forward to start using it, a bit more like you do, and try to enjoy the great out doors a bit more while shooting some great images.

 

[James Brundige]

What is the general stance towards using off-the-shelf storage products? Is the technology closed such that it'd require reverse engineering to determine pin-outs, or does the module use a standard eSATA connector?

Thanks,
Chris

It is highly unlikely that 3rd party cards will work. Red cards are the fastest of the fast with some significant quality control and perhaps some required firmware.

Looking forward to some real specs on what frame rates and resolutions will work on the SSD vs the CF. They price out identically for 256 Gb of storage.

 

[Brook Willard]

I totally understand the general desire to use 3rd party media - saving money. But when I look at the entire camera system and think about places where I'd want to cut corners to save a buck, the media is the absolute last place. What good is a fantastic sensor, awesome features and a tiny design if you lose the footage you shoot because you tried to save a buck? It's the same to me as when a huge production skimps on buying adequate hard drive and LTO storage. It just makes no sense. Would a show ever set up a million dollar stunt and then buy expired film out of the UPM's fridge? Hell no.

I think that before we all start trying to cut corners and save money... we ought to see what we have here first. It's not RED trying to close off the use of third-party media to make a profit. It's RED trying to make the camera they're building for us function - always function - as advertised.

 

[roryhinds]

I think this discussion opens up the whole media options as we have little details of what the recording media options are.

We know there is 64Gb CF but there are many questions unanswered (frame rates, data rates and the spec of these cards)

We know there is a SSD option but again many questions unanswered (frame rates, date rates, spec of the cards and how secure they are while in use)

We know nothing of the Spinning Drive option.

I guess the obvious is that its too early to determine what media format will be best suited as we don't have all the facts.

Hopefully RED will release this info so we can all decide what is best for our own needs and work out budgets accordingly.

 

[James Brundige]

I think that before we all start trying to cut corners and save money... we ought to see what we have here first. It's not RED trying to close off the use of third-party media to make a profit. It's RED trying to make the camera they're building for us function - always function - as advertised.

Right on. The time and energy I put into a shoot makes saving a few dollars on media inconsequential. I need that absolute knowledge that what goes into the camera will come out when I get back to the studio.

Jim said very clearly in Las Vegas that they do not make much money on those cards. Most of the cost is making sure the cards are reliable and fast enough.

 

[Clint Childers]

I like Shane's idea about having the model side covering the external part of the card and his mock up is perfect. I think the side covers on the module can be removed, so designing a side cover that sticks out with the card can protect it more and the whole piece can be made of metal. and on the inside there could be a rubber seal, or gasket, just like on a macbook super dive etc. to keep dust and dirt out. Simple Element Technica piece.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

DEJA VU. this thread is now like the Alexa MX thread... same comments over and over and over and over and over and over ... every few pages....(Jarred, normal people would think we are nuts, no question) im going to be radical and listen to RED and actually reserve all judgment until I actually hold the camera, media etc in my hand and then decide whether SSD or CF is best for me. I know its not as sound as conjecture from a photo... but im crazy like that.

 

[Clint Childers]

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

 

[Clint Childers]

We're all crazy here!

 

[Shane Betts]

I like Shane's idea about having the model side covering the external part of the card and his mock up is perfect. I think the side covers on the module can be removed, so designing a side cover that sticks out with the card can protect it more and the whole piece can be made of metal. and on the inside there could be a rubber seal, or gasket, just like on a macbook super dive etc. to keep dust and dirt out. Simple Element Technica piece.

Thanks Clint. Element Technica or maybe Red Rock Micro even.

DEJA VU. this thread is now like the Alexa MX thread... same comments over and over and over and over and over and over ... every few pages....(Jarred, normal people would think we are nuts, no question) im going to be radical and listen to RED and actually reserve all judgment until I actually hold the camera, media etc in my hand and then decide whether SSD or CF is best for me. I know its not as sound as conjecture from a photo... but im crazy like that.

Well Tim, I'm only too happy to help out here. My hands are waiting... Gimme, gimme, gimme.

 

[Michel Hafner]

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

REDrum REDrum REDrum REDrum REDrum REDrum...

 

[Christopher Nagel]

Right on. The time and energy I put into a shoot makes saving a few dollars on media inconsequential. I need that absolute knowledge that what goes into the camera will come out when I get back to the studio.

Jim said very clearly in Las Vegas that they do not make much money on those cards. Most of the cost is making sure the cards are reliable and fast enough.

On the other hand, if the pin-out was open, or the connector OEM'ed, some enterprising young buck could come along and manufacture a lower-cost media option with more bells and whistles and thereby *grow* the RED ecosystem in a more meaningful way than a plastic bezel to clip over the RED storage.

The accounting used by this fictitious smaller company would be different than RED's, and therefore the margin between break-even and profit could be smaller and closer to OEM (wholesale) pricing too -- probably.

If productions routinely eschew the simple procedure of transcoding to HD from RAW "because it costs money", then the DP's argument for RED-branded media "no matter the cost" would likely fall on deaf ears ITRW.

This would also go for a 3rd-party side-mount option: if that pin-out and spec were available (it's 80% probability that it's just the CF spec, but ya never know), then an e-ink'ed, write-protectable, double-buffered, raid10 side-storage might be possible...

IMHO, RED could better focus its limited engineering resources on creating a spec implementation and be open to smaller 3rd parties with great ideas wanting to join them in the revolution. At this stage, parts of it might be like trying to hit a moving target, but much of it has been solid for a while and could be effectively built-upon.

Chris

 

[Eric Haase]

I totally understand the general desire to use 3rd party media - saving money. But when I look at the entire camera system and think about places where I'd want to cut corners to save a buck, the media is the absolute last place. What good is a fantastic sensor, awesome features and a tiny design if you lose the footage you shoot because you tried to save a buck? It's the same to me as when a huge production skimps on buying adequate hard drive and LTO storage. It just makes no sense. Would a show ever set up a million dollar stunt and then buy expired film out of the UPM's fridge? Hell no.

I think that before we all start trying to cut corners and save money... we ought to see what we have here first. It's not RED trying to close off the use of third-party media to make a profit. It's RED trying to make the camera they're building for us function - always function - as advertised.

Right on. I'm for anything that makes the camera system more reliable. RED's reputation on this front is not good and needs improvement. Having a closed system that ALWAYS works reliably and dependably will make RED an easier sell to producers and studios as its reputation improves.

 

[Tim Whitcomb]

On the other hand, if the pin-out was open, or the connector OEM'ed, some enterprising young buck could come along and manufacture a lower-cost media option with more bells and whistles

Chris

unlikely. given that there is a DIRECT correlation between the COST and GRADE of the silicon in the drives relative to their performance.

True for Memory. True for Solid State.