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84 Panavision Genesis

Sanjin Jukic

Sanjin Jukic

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I heard from another tread that is currently 84 Panavision Genesis cameras.

That said Andy Romanoff from Panavision Headquarters in Woodland Hills, California.


By quantity/numbers is like

84 Genesis cameras vs. 4750 Red cameras.

What you think?
 
Make that 85

Make that 85

According to posting at CML he wrote the following:

There are currently 85 Genesis cameras.

Regards,

Andy

Andy Romanoff
Panavision Woodland Hills
 
Pawel Achtel said:
I think there are more Red cameras than Genesis being shipped. What do you think? :clown2: LOL
Click to expand...

I think that's undoubtedly true. I think it's also undoubtedly true that at least up until this point, there have been a lot more studio features and network television series shot on the Genesis than there have been on the Red.

It's easy to play numbers games. It's also silly, because in the end they don't mean much.
 
Weren't they talking on the most recent Red Centre that having 4097 reds out there isn't necessarily a good thing? Something to do with people not getting as much rental on their reds as they had hoped for.
Panavision cameras are rental only so in theory having so many out there would probably just be a waste.
 
mmost said:
I think that's undoubtedly true. I think it's also undoubtedly true that at least up until this point, there have been a lot more studio features and network television series shot on the Genesis than there have been on the Red.

It's easy to play numbers games. It's also silly, because in the end they don't mean much.
Click to expand...

It's more about the current situation and a sort of strategy.

Panavision and Arri both "owe" the market of movie making for years with a strong network of rental offices and connections worldwide, especially in Hollywood.

From the beginning RED established the forum "RED User" that through the time became a sort of RED "Nation". There will be about 5000 user by the end of 2008. This "Nation" would soon nock the door and try to storm of the Bastille (Hollywood) that is still "owed" by Panavision/Arri "aristocracy" alliance. The Re(d)volution is on a way for sure and it's just a matter of time when will "the insurgents" take over Hollywood Hills.

Vive la Rouge Nation.

Vive la Ré(d)volution.
 
Sanjin, what are you smoking?

Panavision is buying Reds and will be offering them shortly to their clients, just as they do with Sony, Genesis and Arri cameras. They will be offering them with PV and PL glass - I know this first hand from a PV representative.

Arri loves and supports Red owners. I had a five-star treatment from Arri and spent 5 times more with them than with Red - just to option my Red One camera. I received good discounts, fantastic product and the support is superb. I wish more companies did such a good job as Red and Arri.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Sanjin, what are you smoking?

Panavision is buying Reds and will be offering them shortly to their clients, just as they do with Sony, Genesis and Arri cameras. They will be offering them with PV and PL glass - I know this first hand from a PV representative.

Arri loves and supports Red owners. I had a five-star treatment from Arri and spent 5 times more with them than with Red - just to option my Red One camera. I received good discounts, fantastic product and the support is superb. I wish more companies did such a good job as Red and Arri.
Click to expand...

Pawel,

My opinion was more related and directed to so called "decision makers" who are actually deciding with what tools are going to shoot one feature film.
 
The Third Man said:
Pawel,

My opinion was more directed to so called "decision makers" who are actually deciding with what tools are going to shoot one feature film.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is "entertainment industry" and there is no shortage of so called "decision makers". Closer to my genre, this is why BBC, Nat Geo and Discovery more often than not decide to use crap DV footage in their multi-million dollar block buster feature films and would not even consider professionally shot HDCAM content of more engaging story and vision from independent film makers. This is how the industry "works" and this is why you see pretty much crap around the clock in the "idiot box". Red, Arri or Panavision are not going to change that.
 
Pawel Achtel said:
Arri loves and supports Red owners. I had a five-star treatment from Arri and spent 5 times more with them than with Red - just to option my Red One camera. I received good discounts, fantastic product and the support is superb. I wish more companies did such a good job as Red and Arri.
Click to expand...

Arri UK is fantastic for support.

regards

Michael
 
Pawel,

I'm not talking about "Cloverfield" syndrome crap movies that would like to "spread" over the market.

Also I didn't say that RED is a crap.

I said that RED Users are still treated as a sort of "beggars from Paris that wanted storming of the Bastille in French Revolution".

I'm exactly talking about the numbers:

85 Genesis vs. 5000 RED.

Even tomorrow could be 100 Genesis vs. 2500 Epic+2500 RED.
 
Arri and Panavision are not the enemy.

Panavision has supported film makers for years and yes it worked with first the F900 (star wars) then Genesis and now it is about to start renting REDs.

These are good companies with good support staff who have helped film makers around the world for years. Why be negative? Film making is not or does not need to be a win - lose situation.

I have a RED, but I know the Genesis is a great camera, and cameras like it and the F900 before it, lead the charge on Digital Cinematography before RED was even a company. Is the footage in Star Wars (from an HDCAM) better ? - well no of course not but that's not the point. I am still really glad DOPs lead the way with those productions and those cameras.

:)

Mike
 
Guys,

I'm not talking about that Panavision is a bad one and only RED is a good one.

It's about the real numbers presented at the beggining of the tread and about the proportion how many features were shot on each camera.

I would like to repeat again that Panavision thanks to its well established network (took them decades to develop that) managed to

get more feature films shot on Genesis in the first year then RED.

Look at DALSA, a great camera, but not any serious feature except some VFX leftovers from the latest OO7.

Arri- D20 and D21 are "fighting" better because of Arri network and connection.

Again to repeat that Panavision, Dalsa, Arri, Viper, Sony, SI are not "evil" companies that make digital cameras too.

I'm talking about a "treat" of quantity that now RED spread over the industry.

It's about the present situation and a certain implication to that.
 
What are the numbers for feature films shot on Red Vs Genesis?

Despite a suggested 5,000 cameras there seems to be hardly any features shot on RED including a grand total of zero really big features shot on Red whilst there must be literally hundreds of features shot on Genesis?


Also it wouldn't surprise me if Panavision were Red's single biggest client. They are ARRI's biggest client.
 
First off, who says there are 5000 REDs? Just because they're approaching that serial number? If you reserve a camera and then decide not to buy it RED skips that serial number to keep order to their tracking system. Camera serial number 4000 may in fact be the 1000th camera shipped. It may not, but you really don't know, do you?

And it is not important how many Genesis cameras there are relative to how many RED One cameras there are. They work on different kinds of shows for different production styles and budgets. If one were to take the measure of "Add up the production budgets of Genesis shoots v. RED shoots" or "Add up the revenue (gross or net) of Genesis v. RED productions" then I assure you that not only is Genesis insanely ahead of RED, but it will likely remain so for quite some time. Years.

Honestly, what's the point of the us v. them attitude so many have on this forum? Why does the justification of the value of the RED One necessitate the de-valuing of other camera systems? Me, I'm Switzerland.
 
Mich

OK no vs. any more.

But about the facts.

Genesis said: We have 84-85 genesis cameras.

RED said: We are now serving #4301...#4750 cameras.

The new formulation of the question is:

How those numbers and their relation can get impact to the industry?

It's about the question that is mainly addressed to analysts.

BTW, movie industry analysis has become an increasingly an important

part of decision-making skills for that business and life.
 
The Third Man said:
The new formulation of the question is:

How those numbers and their relation can get impact to the industry?

.
Click to expand...

Hi,

I dont ever remember there being a shortage of cameras in the past, so I conclude there will be an over supply of camera bodies & a shortage of lenses. The rental price of cameras should fall & the cost of lenses will rise.

Stephen
 
Thanks Stephen.

The first good analyst's conclusion:

- The rental price of cameras should fall & the cost of lenses will rise.

Next?

One more thing:

Mitch Gross said:
Me, I'm Switzerland.
Click to expand...


You mean the neutrality of Switzerland.

But that neutrality is not about they don't want to be involved in wars, affairs, etc,...

It's about the money because Switzerland is actually one huge bank.

That neutrality for the centuries guaranteed them "infusion" of money from all types of insecure or unstable world around.

But today that neutrality also a lot changed because of global business relation and development.

Switzerland is not neutral any more in o'l sense how it was in former times.

BTW, I would like to say that today everybody is somehow involved in the game and actually nobody's neutral.
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi,

I dont ever remember there being a shortage of cameras in the past, so I conclude there will be an over supply of camera bodies & a shortage of lenses. The rental price of cameras should fall & the cost of lenses will rise.

Stephen
Click to expand...
Indeed, a very good point. Right now, SLR lenses are cheap, but their focus throw and mechanics aren't up to par. Hopefully, a new batch of (relatively) inexpensive cinema-friendly lenses will be made possible in the near future due to the economies of scale because of the high number of PL cameras out there now.
 
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