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≤$1,000 Monitor for Grading/Editing

Zak Brickett

Zak Brickett

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The title asks the question. Good monitor for working with Red files for under $1000? Any suggestions?

I looked into those korean monitors that use the same panel as apple and some other players, but was a little hesitant because they do seem a little shady. If anyone has any experience with those and it's a good one, please share.

Thanks.
 
I love the Dell 2711 monitor. From my understanding it is true 10 bit. Some people don't like the matte finish. They say its grainy but it doesn't bother me. The newer versions of the monitor(U2713H​) are supposed to be good too. But I have not tried it so I don't have an opinion.
 
well "shady" if ya not checking the feedback and simply go for the "best price" but there are some fellas selling them for a LONG time. Also so offer a 50$ US "inssurance" that makes sure you got one WITHOUT a dead pixel, which many dont use because they are often really good (but is says up to i think 4 dead pixel "is ok" so if you totally want to be sure, pay for the inssurance and some dude will pre-check the monitor before shipping)

ya wonna work on it only then go for the ones wothout all that crappy "extra" stuff, just the plane display. though make sure ya find out how to connect the thing to your workstation (via i/o box or somethin)
if ya wanna spend all that money on monitor(s), go for 2 and get one "fancy" view monitor (for replay, etc) from dell, their stuff is really good for not being pro.
But check 2 of them koreans and maybe ya feel thats all ya need?

cheers,
 
The Dell 2711 is excellent for the price. I have not seen the newer 2713 either.

There's more to a monitor than just the panel. You'll find looking around that lots of monitors use the same panels that Apple, HP or others do. In addition to that, you'll find that Apple and others may use panels from different manufacturers within the same product. Apple 27" Cinema Displays, the model prior to the Thunderbolt version, had panels supplied by both Sharp and LG. It may be the same case now for the Thunderbolt version, I know Sharp is the primary supplier... There is still the backlight system and internal processing to take into account. The 2711 uses an RGB backlight system and the panel itself is 6 bit. They effectively get to a 10bit display this way. HP Dreamcolor works in a similar way -- an even more controllable RGB backlight system on a less than 10bit panel. The bit precision output, which is the number of gradations or steps between the darkest and lightest value, is a composite number made up of several contributing elements. We were all set to get 16bit displays until last year when the LED display market all hopped on the bandwagon of the edge-lit (read: super cheap) backlighting system. It sucks, but it works alright. The nicer displays are using local dimming or micro dimming techniques, which vary the brightness of various parts of this edge or perimeter lighting. Full-array backlighting is still far superior, but it seems the last couple displays to use it are the bit 80+ inch models from last year or early this year.

Anyhoo... Take a look at the Dell. You can often find used DreamColor displays for around $1K too. If you have a good way to calibrate, you can get pretty close to everything you might need with a lot of the current HDTV displays and hitting REC-709 is a breeze. This years Samsung UNxxFnnnn series are awesome. Especially the 7100 and 8000 models. 46" F7100 is around $1800. I know that's more than what you're talking about, but it's just an awesome display once you dial it in.

Looking at the cheap monitors, there are options out there. The SEIKI 50" 4K that everyone is raving about is really that good. I've got mine calibrated after a bunch of tweaking and I would be comfortable grading stuff on it destined for low to mid budget TV production. Commercials, etc.. It's perfectly good as a client monitor or to showcase 4K material. It does have it's quirks though...

My primary REC-709 targeted grading display at this time is a 50" VT25 series Panasonic plasma. Works great. I paid $2500 for it new about 3 years ago and it hasn't let me down. The VT30's that replaced it are junk, but the VT50's from last year or this years VT60's are awesome. I think a 42" VT50 can be had for under $900.
 
Cool, the Dell 2711 was on my radar. I think I'll pull the trigger on that one. Amazon has them used-like new for around 700.

42/50" solutions for a time when my desk is bigger and not in my bedroom.

Thanks guys.
 
I don not know a specific brand or so... but my advice no matter price range. get a proper probe for calibration. A monitor can look great, but if it's not calibrated it's just another picture. So get calibration tools first then look at monitors. A good expansive monitor hold it's calibration for a few months at most... So if you did not calibrate lately the you are off for sure.

And just saying, calibrating using the nobs on the screen is like a joke. Is kind of like trying to measure an exact distance by counting foot steps. So thats just like estimatiing. Using a probe and getting a proper lut made is a different thing. Looking at the curves for such lut kind of explains the level of difficulty it would be to do the same using the nobs on the telly... it's like a set of rgb curves that looks like an S curve but with a jagged teeth all the way from the black to white... the better the monitor the less teeth. But I have not seen a monitor that creates even close to a nice curve straight from delivery...
 
Bjorn is correct. No matter which monitor you're buying, unless you have a way to calibrate it to some standardized working target color space, then you're kinda wasting your time. Typically REC-709 or Adobe sRGB for most basic setups, for videos and photo work respectively.

If you can find one, a used DreamColor is a great way to go because they include the color probe and have internal calibration memory.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Bjorn is correct. No matter which monitor you're buying, unless you have a way to calibrate it to some standardized working target color space, then you're kinda wasting your time. Typically REC-709 or Adobe sRGB for most basic setups, for videos and photo work respectively.

If you can find one, a used DreamColor is a great way to go because they include the color probe and have internal calibration memory.
Click to expand...


The probe is an "extra", and the software does not play well with newer systemversions (at least not osx beyond 10.6.8) and is not supported anymore.

It is a bit of a headache.

But I loved them!
 
I went with the Dell. It sounds weird, but the current project I'm working on doesn't require the keenest eye to color perfection so ironically I'll use the money from that to buy a nice probe for the Dell. Between the upgrade program, building a new computer and buying a new monitor my wallet is extremely light these days...back to work.
 
Björn Benckert said:
I don not know a specific brand or so... but my advice no matter price range. get a proper probe for calibration. A monitor can look great, but if it's not calibrated it's just another picture. So get calibration tools first then look at monitors. ...
Click to expand...

So do you have any recommendations for probes and software?
 
For probes on the cheap, I recommend DataColor or XRite. The one thing to watch with these probes is that they all tend to vary a bit. They will get you close and do a decent job of getting all your displays to match one another. If you're willing to spend a bit more, then take a look at the SpectraCal software and buy a probe through them. They use these cheaper probes as well and some of their own and some other more expensive units. When you buy through them, they actually tweak and calibrate the probes in-house to match their specs and you get a better system overall. If you want to go beyond this, then you have to start spending much bigger money on calibration software. And you'll want to spend more on the probe too -- I really like the Klein probes, but it's easy to spend upwards of $10K just on a calibration kit. At that point, it's cheaper to call in a pro to calibrate and maintain your stuff for you. Easy in bigger markets, but when you're off the beaten path, those are harder services to come by. You can often get an ISF calibration tech to come do it -- they're usually more specialized for tweaking home theatre and corporate viewing type setups, but if they know what you're looking for they can usually manage.

Had a pretty darn good calibration guy in my area that served Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona. Most of his business dried up with the down-turn in the economy over the past few years, not as many people building fancy new homes and setting up home theatre systems with stringent requirements. He moved on to other things. :( Last calibration job he did for me was a re-adjust on my screens nearly 2 years ago. Offered to sell me all his calibration gear as he was getting out of the biz.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
For probes on the cheap, I recommend DataColor or XRite. The one thing to watch with these probes is that they all tend to vary a bit. They will get you close and do a decent job of getting all your displays to match one another. If you're willing to spend a bit more, then take a look at the SpectraCal software and buy a probe through them. They use these cheaper probes as well and some of their own and some other more expensive units. When you buy through them, they actually tweak and calibrate the probes in-house to match their specs and you get a better system overall. If you want to go beyond this, then you have to start spending much bigger money on calibration software. And you'll want to spend more on the probe too -- I really like the Klein probes, but it's easy to spend upwards of $10K just on a calibration kit. At that point, it's cheaper to call in a pro to calibrate and maintain your stuff for you. Easy in bigger markets, but when you're off the beaten path, those are harder services to come by. You can often get an ISF calibration tech to come do it -- they're usually more specialized for tweaking home theatre and corporate viewing type setups, but if they know what you're looking for they can usually manage.

Had a pretty darn good calibration guy in my area that served Colorado, New Mexico and Arizona. Most of his business dried up with the down-turn in the economy over the past few years, not as many people building fancy new homes and setting up home theatre systems with stringent requirements. He moved on to other things. :( Last calibration job he did for me was a re-adjust on my screens nearly 2 years ago. Offered to sell me all his calibration gear as he was getting out of the biz.
Click to expand...


+1 For Spectracal http://store.spectracal.com/consumer/calpc-monitor-calibration.html The C6 is a reasonable probe.
for example. Extending this a bit further, whilst keeping at in the relatively low price point, is the frequent companion Lumagen, for HT : http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php

Both have excellent support. For grading, though, not sure how the Lumagen colouring of input signal would fly. The thing is, though, if there are only very limited controls, withing the display device, there may be greater need for a Lumagen, but YMMV, as regards use as a grading device. N.B., there are package calibration licenses also.

Thank you very much

Fury
 
For color grading monitor calibration there are few choices.
1. LightSpace CMS (http://www.lightillusion.com/lightspace.html)
2. CineSpace from THX (http://www.thx.com/professional/thx-technology-professional/thx-color-science/cinespace/)
3. Truelight from FilmLight. (http://www.filmlight.ltd.uk/products/truelight/overview_tl.php)
LightSpace being most popular and cheapest with best support.
Spectracal can be used to calibrate home theaters, but it can't built proper, industry standard LUTs for use with various grading solutions, like other three I had mentioned.
Both LightSpace CMS and CineSpace use industry standard probes from XRite to Klein and Minolta. Truelight uses it's own made probe. Most popular and price sensitive option for a probe these days is x rite i1 display pro, which can be used both with transmissive and reflected types of displays.
My overall recommendation would be LightSpace CMS for best support and price. CineSpace... not so much...
 
I learned the hard way that Davinci is not WYSIWYG when it comes to ICC profiles created by Xrite i1Display w/ the Xrite software wizard.

If you have a nicely calibrated set up on DVI and use Resolve, your output will look completely different than what you are seeing in the GUI on the exact same monitor with the exact same settings.

Regardless of the render (any flavor of MOV, TIF, DPX, DNxHD) toggling full range data on my clips in the media pool and the auto setting in the export pane and viewing in different players, I got a sick looking green desaturated tint on my clips.

If I understand correctly, the problem is with the ICC color matrix fooling you into thinking the image looks good when in fact it's actually pushing you further away from the look you want.

This is why DVI monitors should never be used for color critical work and why color probes for DVI LCD screens are a waste of money if you are thinking about using them in your grading suite.
 
I got the DataColor Elite - I'll be testing her out tonight. We'll see...

I would've gone with a higher end solution but just need to save some more nickels and dimes before heading down that road.
 
So that Dell U2711 can do 10bit but DVI cant. So I'm wondering about using that but with an HDMI to DisplayPort adapter and using HDMI out of a Blackmagic card? Would that give me 10bit?
 
Have a Dreamcolor but no calibration tools. And I'm in Alaska (so, like Mars for finding a Calibration Pro). Bought used. Never calibrated by me. Dreading the thought....
egads.
Appreciate the info being brought up here..

Stu Aull
SX199
Alaska
 
Spectracal can do custom LUTs just fine with the latest releases. I believe they have REC-709 presets as well now too. It all comes down to the calibration technician, or person assuming that role, who is using the software and what they can or are willing to do. LightSpace and CineSpace are much better solutions, but they are also considerably more expensive. I actually like Spectracal, although it takes a much larger investment in time and setup, or at least it did in the past, in order to get up and running with it. Originally it was indeed targeted at home theatre or corporate AV rooms. Their first focus was to calibrate for THX home theatre specs.
 
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