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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Ask David Mullen ANYTHING

Matt W. said:
How do you get that kind of look where there's background detail throughout and on all the foliage (particularly in the wides, which I didn't post) but the background is never overexposed (as it would be if hit frontally with an HMI) and there's that great hot backlight on the talent?

My guess: you used an uncorrected (or half corrected?) helium HMI balloon for low-level fill a few stops under key and then used a small HMI par can just off frame for the backlight? But did you backlight the foliage separately from the talent and, if not, why is the backlight stronger on the talent? Did you use a fog filter or is that shot on set with a hazer? Did you wet the foliage first to get sharper speculars?

I'm very curious. I'd love to be able to shoot footage like that; my night exteriors are flat nightmares and I have to go back and bring down over-bright foliage in post.
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I generally used a big backlight from a half-corrected HMI, but I played with the spot-flood to get more of the backlight on the actors. Also, with all of that foliage blocking part of the far backlight, I probably used an additional small HMI backlight on the second one, to backlight the rain better as well.

Smoke and rain help to add detail and texture to the background.
 
Very cool; thanks.

Just to confirm, the fill (frontal light) is from half-corrected helium balloons? A little more than two stops under on the faces? I've never had the budget to rent those so I don't know how they look, but the light seems too even, toppy, and diffuse to be from kinos or softboxes (which is what I'm accustomed to using, and sometimes undiffused frontal HMIs with a branchaloris, which looks terrible).
 
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I am trying to decide whether or not to go to film school... how much does a film degree help... My parents are very supportive if my film industry addiction... they are just afraid that I will end up a "starving Artist" lol... I really want to work on set, dont care what the job is really, But i would love to be a DP some day. I am Laying down 25K'ish for an S35 Kit when it comes out and will be renting it out every so ofter to help pay it off. I really thin k I would love film school, but I just don't know where to go I live in florida so I was looking at FSU?. Will the degree help or should I just go out to cali. and network my way in?
 
Matt W. said:
Very cool; thanks.

Just to confirm, the fill (frontal light) is from half-corrected helium balloons? A little more than two stops under on the faces? I've never had the budget to rent those so I don't know how they look, but the light seems too even, toppy, and diffuse to be from kinos or softboxes (which is what I'm accustomed to using, and sometimes undiffused frontal HMIs with a branchaloris, which looks terrible).
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The first one had an overhead balloon with both tungsten and HMI globes inside it, hence the half-corrected color.

The idea was to create a softer moonlight effect in the swamps, plus it was easier to get a balloon out there. But I decided I wanted the background to be backlit because the balloon was only lighting the foreground area. So in that first one, I had to hide some parallels (scaffolding) in the trees to put an HMI on top, deep in the woods. But most of the action takes place under the lighting balloon after they emerge from the woods.

To create a night exterior with depth so that it doesn't look like only the actors are lit, you need a lot of light all around -- it may look a bit overlit to the eye but underexposed and stopped down, it all falls off into the darkness nicely. James Cameron once called it "liquid night" in describing how T2 used a lot of HMI's to cover an area so that there was detail deep into the background.

How much to underexpose the faces just depends on the look and the angle of the light. If the moon is backlighting the scene, then the faces are in the shadow side and can be lit softly but underexposed, maybe two-stops under. But there is a brighter edge to add snap and highlights. But if the moon is sidelighting a scene, it shouldn't be as underexposed or else you won't have enough highlights in the frame, maybe 1.5-stops under or 1-stop under (you can always darken it a bit more in post -- it's better than overdoing the underexposure and having to brighten in post...)

Balloons can be tricky to work with and they aren't always the best solution. On the other hand, in real life, the moon can be dead overhead, it can be totally frontal, etc.
 
Perry Wilson said:
I am trying to decide whether or not to go to film school... how much does a film degree help... My parents are very supportive if my film industry addiction... they are just afraid that I will end up a "starving Artist" lol... I really want to work on set, dont care what the job is really, But i would love to be a DP some day. I am Laying down 25K'ish for an S35 Kit when it comes out and will be renting it out every so ofter to help pay it off. I really thin k I would love film school, but I just don't know where to go I live in florida so I was looking at FSU?. Will the degree help or should I just go out to cali. and network my way in?
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Everyone has a different opinion on film schools. Most of us only go to one, if any, so it's hard to say if another one is better, it would only be based on hearsay. I certainly question the cost of film school these days, it was easier to decide back when I went when it wasn't an arm and a leg.

To put it bluntly, I learned mostly on my own before I even went to film school. But I couldn't figure out how to break into the business. After I went to school, I got work from contacts I made in school. So it ultimately benefitted me to go, but I think it helps then to pick a school in a production area where your friends from school are likely to get industry jobs and can connect you with one of them.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Everyone has a different opinion on film schools. Most of us only go to one, if any, so it's hard to say if another one is better, it would only be based on hearsay. I certainly question the cost of film school these days, it was easier to decide back when I went when it wasn't an arm and a leg.

To put it bluntly, I learned mostly on my own before I even went to film school. But I couldn't figure out how to break into the business. After I went to school, I got work from contacts I made in school. So it ultimately benefitted me to go, but I think it helps then to pick a school in a production area where your friends from school are likely to get industry jobs and can connect you with one of them.
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Yes this is exactly where I am at... lol I am currently working with Kevin Nealon's brother Chris, every time I bring up his brothers name he gets kinda weird, don't know of their history but I am just afraid to ask him too much, like "hey would you introduce me if I move out to LA?". He is a good friend and I dont want to screw that up... and I know a lot from teaching my self I dont want to say everything because their is always something to learn, but as a form of exaggeration "gosh I feel like I know everything" , but I dont know where to go to get into the industry, I would love to find a internship out in cali. just to get my foot in the door, lol Hey David are you looking for a hard working guy, who will work for next to nothing and do anything?, lol, but really, lol... I just feel like if I could get away from here and find some work/internship out there it would really get the ball rolling. So if you know of anyone and feel like mentioning me, that would be cool, but if not I understand... I want to go to film school if not just for the fact of making relations, but for the fact that I feel it will be like this forum but real, people like me talking about what we all love most... the film industry, but more importantly RED.
 
Perry Wilson said:
I am trying to decide whether or not to go to film school... how much does a film degree help... My parents are very supportive if my film industry addiction... they are just afraid that I will end up a "starving Artist" lol... I really want to work on set, dont care what the job is really, But i would love to be a DP some day. I am Laying down 25K'ish for an S35 Kit when it comes out and will be renting it out every so ofter to help pay it off. I really thin k I would love film school, but I just don't know where to go I live in florida so I was looking at FSU?. Will the degree help or should I just go out to cali. and network my way in?
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FSU has a great film program. I would suggest that if you can get in, go for it. I think Full Sail is also in Florida (I could be wrong). There is also UCF, and Miami that have decent film programs.

The one thing to know about film school is that it will NOT get you a job. In the filmmaking business nobody cares what film school you went to, or even if you went to film school. IMHO if you don't know anyone in the film business, or you don't have any access to film equipment, then go to film school.

In film school you will make friends and contacts that will help you get your start. You also get exposed to all kinds of equipment you normally would not. If you want to DP, then shoot everyone's film. You learn by doing.
 
Thanks for the info; very helpful as always. We did the side-lighting about one stop under technique once with a couple 1.2k HMIs and it worked great for deep woods in terms of efficiency and area covered, but the bright backlight and softer fill looks even much nicer to me.

Perry, as for film schools...in my opinion, the top ones are genuinely good and you can get something out of most of them, although they're incredibly expensive. I may go to one next year if I can get accepted for cinematography and take out loans if I have to. I've been impressed with most of the grads and students I've met and worked with.

To get a job in film you need to learn your craft and then get your name out there; film school helps a lot with one and a little with the other, especially if you go somewhere with other talented and motivated people. It's possible (and so much cheaper) to do both on your own but very hard.
 
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Brad Webb said:
IMHO if you don't know anyone in the film business, or you don't have any access to film equipment, then go to film school.
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Agree..One main reason to go back in the day when camera/edit
cost so much was the equipment.
Before equipment was more than school but now...School = Red Package

Now reason is to learn and make contacts with other students/teachers.
If you can get contacts and learn from pros you don't need school.
but when you're in school and a 3 time Academy nominated writer tells
a director the same thing about a script that you told that
director 2 weeks before...that's priceless..you learn to trust your instincts.

If you do go to one of the better schools you get
exposed to a pretty damn high standard of production. On internet
you see people complimenting each others short films back and
forth...but they don't quite realize those shorts might not open any doors
cause they're kind of dime a dozen. School teaches you to raise the bar.
 
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The thing is I know I can make contacts without having to pay 30k a semester, and my learning curve on this subject is so fast I feel it would be a waste... Yeah I may not know a lot on using actual film as a recording medium... but I will always and forever now shoot digital Film is a dying art...
 
Hi David.
I would like to know if you ever had the chance to shoot a car commercial, and how would you aproach such assignment. We will be shooting mostly exterior.
Thanks!
 
David,
Thanks for all your great advise on this forum.

Could you explain how a film being a union show affects the ability to hire a non-union DP? Is there some latitude for the producers to hire a non-union DP if the director requests someone specific?

Thank you, Barry
 
Frank Rios said:
Hi David.
I would like to know if you ever had the chance to shoot a car commercial, and how would you aproach such assignment. We will be shooting mostly exterior.
Thanks!
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No, I've never shot a car commercial. The thing I've noticed about them is that a car is a big mirror basically so often beauty shots involve a giant soft box above the car that is very neatly constructed so all you get is a white rectangle in the surface. You have to be aware that metal stands, cameras, dolly tracks, etc. all get reflected, though you can spend the money in post to paint some of it out. But when cars are shot outside, other than rugged drive-by stuff in the mountains during the day, often they wait until magic hour to shoot the beauty shot of it parked outside so the whole sky is reflected in the surface of the car.
 
Barry Gregg said:
David,
Thanks for all your great advise on this forum.

Could you explain how a film being a union show affects the ability to hire a non-union DP? Is there some latitude for the producers to hire a non-union DP if the director requests someone specific?

Thank you, Barry
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It's certainly possible otherwise so many famous foreign DP's couldn't have come over to shoot union films in America. I don't know the exact way to go about it but you may be asked to join the union at least temporarily (the union hoping probably that you'll stay permanently.) In the old days, the production had to hire a union person as a standby (Ron Garcia was listed as the Director of Photography on "One from the Heart" even though the Cinematographer was Vittorio Storaro -- Garcia was basically the stand-by for Storaro) -- this was an incentive basically for the producers to hire a union DP since they otherwise they were going to pay for two people for the same job. But I don't know if they still do that, more than likely you'll just be asked to join, sort of "grandfathered" in.

I joined the union in 2003 when it looked like I might be hired on a union film. That film ended up being cancelled but six months later I was hired on a union film so it was good to have already done the paperwork.

You can talk to a business rep for Local 600 and get their advice.
 
Hi David,
I have a short question about greenscreen/ bluescreen paint. Which one would you recommend for outside (daylight) work. Is there one which works best with Red1 and the old sensor? Rosco?
Thank´s a lot,
Marc
 
David, I know this has been stated many times, but I also want to thank you for all of this tireless information. I have been shooting for 35 years and own a Red, and find your posts to be very helpful and informative. Amazing after all these years there are so many things left to be learned. Life is good.

Thanks dude
 
Hi David. Thanks for previous answer.
I was wondering you could tell me the difference between the ARRIs Fresnel, and the ARRIs PAR. Thanks!!
 
PAR's are sealed units containing the filament & reflector, and sometimes the lens for spot-flood (in the case of tungsten PAR64's -- HMI PAR's use add-on lenses in front of a clear glass face.) A car headlamp is the most common example of a PAR unit.

You can read about fresnel lenses here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresnel_lens

Basically a fresnel lamp not only intensifies the output but also puts out a very even beam, edge-to-edge, at full flood, while also producing clean-edged shadows. Therefore they are preferred for even lighting on large flat surfaces, for projecting shadow patterns, and for hard facial lighting. For example, if you were going to throw a light on a wall and then use a black flag to create a shadow line, you'd want to use a fresnel light. But the physical unit -- due to the size of the fresnel lens -- is heavier and bulkier than a PAR unit.

Most HMI's are PAR's, though a PAR globe's small compact, sealed construction make them difficult to build in very high wattages due to heat problems, so 10K tungsten PAR's and 12K/18K HMI PAR's are a fairly recent phenomenon -- and they do get hot. The advantage to the large HMI fresnels is that they produce a wide, even field of light, useful for covering a large window or a large area without a hot spot or ugly shadow patterns.
 
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