Jarred hinted at Komodo 2 in December - predictions?

[rand thompson]

We are now living in a "Give me a cinema camera with good autofocus or give me death" world. I suspect RED knows this better than we do. Time will tell, of course.


If there is something new needed to take the Komodo into this world, I hope they do something like the Mysterium to MX upgrade path of many years ago.

Stephen

Stephen,

Any software/ Firmware improvements for Autofocusing will be limited by the currently existing hardware available for Autofocusing in the camera. Maybe RED is working on some additional external Hardware that will work with the current Autofocusing capabilities of the camera to further improve it. Any improved Autofocusing capabilities that will come in December will be better than any Autofocusing capabilities in any ARRI Camera which has none. However, hoping for Autofocusing capabilities that will match the likes of Canon, Nikon and Sony will probably lead to a lot of disappointment.

 

[Phil Holland]

Not that my personal thoughts matter here, but with AF being very new to RED and even not employed by higher end ARRI or Sony systems, yet commonplace in the Sony and Canon entry level through prosumer world.

I think much of what is taking time is implementing, likely in some sort of more "motion picture minded" way, differently compared to other solutions. I don't think RED isn't aware of things like the Light Ranger which are used on higher end productions. I hope we get something that "tracks" like people likely expect while also having some ability to operate.

And as I've mentioned, the bonus solution would be to integrate external motors to allow AF to work with cinema glass and not just RF or EF solutions.

Pretty close to this getting sorted out by somebody. Hoping RED can get there in actuality. That would be a very powerful, small system.

This is coming from somebody who virtually doesn't use autofocus for motion, but I certainly would if it was deployed to a level I can rely on for my work. I think handheld gimbal and steadicam situationally land as the two most desired methods of operation with AF. Probably handheld, walking, and talking head stuff too.

I'm mostly curious how it gets integrated in the camera, in the touch displays, and what modes we'll have access to. The additional valuable layer is the external motor solution, which can occur at a different time.

 

[rand thompson]

Not that my personal thoughts matter here, but with AF being very new to RED and even not employed by higher end ARRI or Sony systems, yet commonplace in the Sony and Canon entry level through prosumer world.

I think much of what is taking time is implementing, likely in some sort of more "motion picture minded" way, differently compared to other solutions. I don't think RED isn't aware of things like the Light Ranger which are used on higher end productions. I hope we get something that "tracks" like people likely expect while also having some ability to operate.

And as I've mentioned, the bonus solution would be to integrate external motors to allow AF to work with cinema glass and not just RF or EF solutions.

Pretty close to this getting sorted out by somebody. Hoping RED can get there in actuality. That would be a very powerful, small system.

This is coming from somebody who virtually doesn't use autofocus for motion, but I certainly would if it was deployed to a level I can rely on for my work. I think handheld gimbal and steadicam situationally land as the two most desired methods of operation with AF. Probably handheld, walking, and talking head stuff too.

I'm mostly curious how it gets integrated in the camera, in the touch displays, and what modes we'll have access to. The additional valuable layer is the external motor solution, which can occur at a different time.

Thanks for your input on this Phil! Yeah, you would think that to create an Autofocusing method more advantageous to Cinema cameras would necessitate somewhat of a completely new philosophy of how Autofocusing should work or be implemented. However whether or not consumers will appreciate and fully understand and adapt to that approach and whether or not and how fast third-party vendors will adapt to that new approach is the question to be answered.

 

[rand thompson]

How To Use the DJI Lidar RS without the Ronin RS3 Pro (though you still need one to set it up)

BY
watermelonisyummy

RED KOMODO 6K SIRUI35mm 3D FocusSystem LiDAR DJI RS2

BY
Shoichi Nakamura

 

[Roberto Franco]

Not that my personal thoughts matter here, but with AF being very new to RED and even not employed by higher end ARRI or Sony systems, yet commonplace in the Sony and Canon entry level through prosumer world.

I think much of what is taking time is implementing, likely in some sort of more "motion picture minded" way, differently compared to other solutions. I don't think RED isn't aware of things like the Light Ranger which are used on higher end productions. I hope we get something that "tracks" like people likely expect while also having some ability to operate.

And as I've mentioned, the bonus solution would be to integrate external motors to allow AF to work with cinema glass and not just RF or EF solutions.

Pretty close to this getting sorted out by somebody. Hoping RED can get there in actuality. That would be a very powerful, small system.

This is coming from somebody who virtually doesn't use autofocus for motion, but I certainly would if it was deployed to a level I can rely on for my work. I think handheld gimbal and steadicam situationally land as the two most desired methods of operation with AF. Probably handheld, walking, and talking head stuff too.

I'm mostly curious how it gets integrated in the camera, in the touch displays, and what modes we'll have access to. The additional valuable layer is the external motor solution, which can occur at a different time.

So Phil and I are on the same page: RED, please give us lens motors (all my lenses are manual) and a lidar to plug in the Komodo on the price range of the DJI Lidar :applouse:

 

[rand thompson]

Here's the DJI RS3 PRO and Lidar with a RED V- RAPTOR

DJI RS3 Pro, RS3, Transmission, & LiDAR Review

By Parker Walbeck

 

[Thomas B.]

I hope we get something that "tracks" like people likely expect while also having some ability to operate.

Moon Smart Focus looks very promising...though not available yet.

 

[Jon Pais]

I'd like to see the Komodo and all RED cameras incorporate Ed Lachman's zone system.

 

[Peter Choi]

Despite never using AF on my RED's, I do have a bunch of canon RF mount lenses. Very curious to see what the AF advancements would bring to both the Komodo and V-Raptor.

 

[Remington Chase]

I remember seeing a great AF system at the Preston Both at Cinegear maybe 4 or 5 years ago and before that another system at NAB, the problem is price, no one is going to pay $30k for autofocus. And yet using FF on a fast lens wide open no person can nail it so something needs to happen to get Sony level AF on manual glass.

 

[Brian Roberts]

Interesting discussion going on here.

I have found the limited AF on Komodo to be both impressive, especially for a company's first go at it, as well as just barely not reliable enough to trust for paid work. The obvious best implementation of Komodo's current AF is for talking heads, but even then I've had issues at certain distances and especially if contrast ratios are not the greatest. Have a subject with a nice summer tan sitting in front of a wooden bookshelf? Fuggetabout it. No matter how hard you crank that key light and bury the background it might still pump.

Now, contrast that with say the Sony system and in that same scenario any of their recent cameras will not only be locked onto an eyeball, but it'll take direction from you as to which eyeball to track.

Honesty, the chatter about how cinema autofocus systems need to be so much different than the hybrid cameras smacks of opinions from those who are unfamiliar with how robust these modern mirrorless AF systems have become. Not only are they spooky good, but are easily able to mimic more organic behavior depending on how they are set up between focusing speed and subject shift sensitivity.

This tech is moving quickly.

 

[Björn Benckert]

I'd like to see the Komodo and all RED cameras incorporate Ed Lachman's zone system.

Strange scale, for me left to right is underexposed to over exposed. Except for that that scale works quite similar to what red already have no?

 

[Aaron Lochert]

Strange scale, for me left to right is underexposed to over exposed. Except for that that scale works quite similar to what red already have no?

Ed Lachman zones is more akin to GioScope rather than false color. It requires the zones be measured in stops, rather than IRE values of a post output transform image. I very much miss GioScope when after moving from Helium to Komodo. It's my one feature request.

 

[rand thompson]

ED Lachman's Zones system would be a great addition to any camera like it is in the Panasonic VariCam LT and 35 with a firmware upgrade. But It's also a great tool in post for Cameras that didn't have the benefit of the Ed Lachman Zone system for checking exposure.

Look Designer Offers ED Lachman's Zones as well as the Guide in the software. I'm using it in post to make sure that I maintain Middle Gray after adding contrast . I use an ACES workflow and ,at least with Look Designer, you can only use ED Lachman's Zones in REC709. So I had to use two ACES TRANSFORMS to go from ACES to REC709 and to REC709 back into ACES to utilize it.

If you try to use ED Lachman's Zones in straight ACES, it will not look correct.


LOOK DESIGNER 2.6
Look Designer - Colourlab.ai


Project Settings

ACES TRANSFORMS to go from ACES to REC709 and from REC709 back to ACES. I had to select both an REC709 IDT and REC709 ODT to make sure the ED Lachman Zones and Guide worked properly in LOOK DESIGNER inside the REC709 Node.

ED Lachman Zones and Guide between the ACES / REC709 to REC709/ ACES "ACES TRANSFORMS.

ED Lachman Zones and Guide in Straight ACES

Using ED Lachman's Zones and Guide to check that I maintained "MIDDLE GRAY" using the KH Contrast 2.5 version DCTL to maintain the Middle Gray for ACEScct.



ED Lachman's Zones and Guide Without Contrast

ED Lachman's Zones and Guide With Contrast (obviously this is too much contrast, it was used for demonstrational purposes)

The Exposure of the image in particular her skintone stayed the same only with more contrast. False Color is a great tool but I would prefer Ed Lachman's Zones and Guide any day over it.

 

[rand thompson]

With a Node for '' EXPOSURE ADJUSTMENT" before the LOOK DESINER ED Lachman Node, I can adjust exposure and see the results in "Real Time".

 

[rand thompson]

link to ED Lachman IPP2 Creative LUT
SendGB | Send Large Files | Free file transfer

Here is the process that I used to create this ED Lachman Lut below

https://www.reduser.net/forum/everyt...34#post3796934


I tried to export a LUT out of LOOK DESIGNER 2.6.3 with the ED LACHMAN zones embedded in it however LOOK DESIGNER disables the Output of a LUT when ED Lachman Zones are enabled. So I used a method that I came up with for converting DCTL grades into LUTs described above to "RECORD" the ED Lachman Zones image to a "HALD" file. I then used "3DLUT Creator Pro" to turn that HALD file into a IPP2 Compatible LUT.

So Try it out and let me know if it actually works or not.

 

[rand thompson]

The actual Process to make an IPP2 Compatible ED Lachman Zones Lut before the HALD File creation process

Project Settings

Disable the RED IPP2 Medium/Soft Node and Start the Hald Creation to an eventual LUT process POST #427 to POST #429

https://www.reduser.net/forum/everyt...36#post3796936

 

[rand thompson]

DJI LiDAR Range Finder | A SHORT Review with my RED KOMODO 6K

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Tony Morgan