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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red Dragon - It's Just Paint.

Gunleik Groven said:
Ken Wilson said:
It is kinda hard to communicate how cool the Dragon is in a single shot.
I know... :)

For "pure skintones and natural light"

Check Peters tremendous footage:

https://vimeo.com/72861708

And John has shown off a lot of nice stuff + has documented some of the real cool features vs IR and skin and color:
https://vimeo.com/74857457

I basically tried to throw hard stuff at it, and got back with stuff I did not expect.

Mark went Gung Ho.
Lovely results.
https://vimeo.com/71666317


It is really cool to see something controlled shot, like this, not with natural lights.

This and the Gaga video:
https://vimeo.com/73649089#at=0

Shows off great productionvalue when NOT abused... :)

I set out to break it, as Mark did in each our ways.
Peter just shot some beautiful stuff.

And Phil and Gaga shows off some of the stuff which is really amazing:
Color renderition.

The sum of info out there is kinda building up... :)

Love this thing!

Best

G
Click to expand...


I don't have the Dragon yet, I ordered two and I think it'll happen the same thing that happened to me with 2 Scarlets and two Epics as I shoot only 3D.
I was searching everywhere for good footage and found nothing until I had to buy my own Reds. Then I show with the very very first shot that the Red is a way under-priced, under-advertised awesome camera. I think Red needs to make a database of footage that all good people can contribute for free so others can see without looking at youtube, vimeo etc. A very well dbase with easy access to everyone.

Thank u for the links, I was aware of them except the gaga one.

I think we are blind now because to appreciate the Dragon, even the Epic AND Scarlet you need to see it in 4k in a 65" at least size tv, anything else is compromising.

I uderstand the image should be looked from many sides and you and Phil expressed yours. I (like all of us) have my way at looking at the image. For Me richness of color, gradation is a must with a sharp picture (in the areas you want the picture sharp) to say at least.

I am sold to Dragon because I think it delivered already in everything I want except richness in color. It's better than Epic but Color information.. I see a nice print of a face with film and I can look at it for hrs and still I'll not get all details and colors. It's sex for the eye and orgasmic. In the ones I've seen so far I got everything in few seconds. My eyes wanted more but it was not there. I don't think is lighting or makup or processing it in Resolve or RCX. If something is not there u can not bring it from somewhere because simply is not there.

This is all based on what I see so far. As it happened before with the Scarlets and the Epics I have it changed in the first shot and I said "I don't know what few people bitching around about this and that, it does not make sense". I hope I'll say the same thing again before Christmas..
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Bob Gundu said:
I'm pretty impressed with Dragon and RG3, RC3. Remember, the Dragon will have a new color science soon, which should be an improvement. I'm not sure how these images look fake and unnatural to you, but beauty (and skin tones) are in the eye of the beholder I guess.
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Thanks for the Reply Bob, I understand and hope the Dragon will become only better. I agree with you, not only the skin tones, in general everything is in the eye of the beholder more or less. My eye is not completely happy and I can't persuade it yet. But so far I got more from my 2 Epics that I hoped for so I'm sure it'll happen the same with the Dragons soon.
 
Phil Holland said:
No offense taken Ken. But I'm also not seeing what you're seeing, or perhaps more accurately, not presenting exactly what you want to see. I also was a Digital Colorist for 6 years on features though and I still do that work on that level to this day. This in itself is represents a quick grade and I didn't want to get too fancy on that front. I'm also providing these files so people can see for themselves what's exactly there.

The Key Light for the vast majority of this is just daylight coming through the window diffused through the curtain. The rim and fill are both daylight balanced as well. Also the balcony shots are all natural light. In particular I see exactly what I want to see in her hand holding the mantis in the last couple shots. That's the good stuff. Also the subtle color separation specifically in the pale yellows and blues is solid. I did direct the make up artist to use those colors because they are usually not so "camera friendly". They hold here and are clearly in the REDCODE and visible to the eye.

However, I only shot for 2 hours. I could honestly shoot more "random people" with different complexions and varying levels of makeup and clean face to satisfy that need, but as Gunliek linked there'a good chunk of that material out there.
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Hello Phil,

Thank you for your kind explanation, I agree will you all the way as to what I am looking is different that what I have seen so far. I am very thankfull to you and all the other people who put their time for everyone to see what the Dragon can Do. I replied to Mr. Gunleik so you can see specifically there my standing as of now.

Thank you kindly
 
Björn Benckert said:
Ken Wilson said:
Do not really understand what you mean, the makeup artist might have makup on but not on her arms and hands and from looking at these images in redcine I think they do have everything to ask for. At least to me, as I never ever in my life got my hands on a picture that holds up as well as these. That goes back past our Domino and highres filmscaners.
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Thank you for your response Bjorn,
I kindly disagree with you as everything of what I want is not there. I understand that you are happy with all you see there but "I" am not. Please look at a more detailed msg as I replied to Mr. Gunleik so you can see specifically there my standing as of now.
Thanks again, it nice people like you, Phil and Gunleik and the all the people in the beautiful community here to say at least that make Red Dragon and any Red an even better camera to own.
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Cheers guys. Just watching the REDRAY version at the moment.

One thing I was going to mention as it was a "Dragon Concern", you'll notice in the BTS that I had an OConnor O-Box on my camera. With the matte box properly positioned it covered the 18mm safely at 6K WS. Nice surprise.

I'm going to get cracking on a more elaborate grade that's a bit less "natural" and a bit more stylized this evening.
 
Matt Ryan said:
pretty sure it's the wide Schneider... That red tint is definitely coming from the lens. I'm assuming the softness is as well.
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They flare a bit warm when light jumps into them. The only time you see the 18mm and 25mm is at the beginning. That flare coming in happens from shooting at T2 with the behind the subject, I think that shot was T2 on the 75mm with the subject distance of 15 feet.

There's a 35mm shot or two in the edit, but most of this was shot on the 50, 75, and 95mm primes. This allowed me to stay clear of the artist and still grab my macro close ups.
 
Decided to have a play in Resolve. For anyone else with a RR make sure to disable it or the R3D's will have no info or image available to grade.

Went for a late afternoon, slightly more saturated look on this one. Can't get over how much latitude is there.

Dragon-wide-balcony_evening_.jpg


Dragon_wide_balcony_evening_close.jpg
 
Matt Ryan said:
Decided to have a play in Resolve. For anyone else with a RR make sure to disable it or the R3D's will have no info or image available to grade.

Went for a late afternoon, slightly more saturated look on this one. Can't get over how much latitude is there.

Dragon-wide-balcony_evening_.jpg


Dragon_wide_balcony_evening_close.jpg
Click to expand...

The bottom one is freaking awesome!! Can’t wait to see what Phil colors, It is going to be sick!
 
Nice looks Matt!

I've been spending time in the "lab" for a bit.

I sincerely hope you guys take a look how these play with 3D LUTs. My jaw's been on the floor for about 3 hours now. Dragon's got a thickness and a richness that is real, real fun.
 
Been using a variety of 3D Luts. Used the Kodak and Fuji LUT's that were posted here on the site, tried the Speedlooks LUT's, and then used the OSIRIS LUT's. Love how much depth these Dragon images have. It's a lot of fun seeing what each LUT does and how much you can play with the images without clipping or creating noise. Even though this is Redcolor 3, the separation of tones looks great. Really excited for Dragoncolor. Basically the full range of data in that balcony shot is there. Nothing clipping despite the sun on the white of the canopy. Pretty awesome stuff. Can't wait to shoot some Dragon footage myself.
 
So here are a couple of my results from the "lab". My immediate attention today went to 4K delivery. Exploring sharpness and texture is one thing.

However, the color that's inside these files is tremendous.

Below are straight REDCOLOR3/REDLOGfilm + a Kodak 3D LUT. No other grade. I did run a full pass on sharpen, scale, and clean up though. You'll notice some of that purple fringing isn't apparent anymore.

If these aren't the skin tones people want I don't know what is.


Click for 4K version.


Click for 4K version.


Click for 4K version.


Click for 4K version.
 
Phil Holland said:
Cheers guys. Just watching the REDRAY version at the moment.

One thing I was going to mention as it was a "Dragon Concern", you'll notice in the BTS that I had an OConnor O-Box on my camera. With the matte box properly positioned it covered the 18mm safely at 6K WS. Nice surprise.

I'm going to get cracking on a more elaborate grade that's a bit less "natural" and a bit more stylized this evening.
Click to expand...

Please do upload your redray 'content' folder if you're willing. Would love to load it up on our RR player.
 
I'm late to the party, but my god that's great looking footage. Thank you for taking the time to share, Phil.
 
Phil Holland said:
If these aren't the skin tones people want I don't know what is.
Click to expand...

While grading by a LUT (pre-set transform made for other purpose and in this case based on other raw data) and sharpening of UHD motion imagery (from cameras made with intent of avoiding the need for sharpening) are better left perceived as subjective creative choice not to be debated on, in the context of skin tonality and first raw files made public it may be useful to mention that people usually don't have faces covered with green/blue/yellow paint.
 
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