Zoom H6 optimization

[Christoffer Glans]

I bought a Zoom H6 because it has a better signal to noise ratio than the H4n. But I still feel that it isn't enough to get clean sounds.
I have a Neumann KM185 which is a really good mic and I also have the Sound Devices MixPre-D, which together with the H6 gives a really clean sound.
The problem is that it's a bit complicated to use the H6 together with the MixPre-D in the field.

Is there a way to get a much more simple improved preamp for the KM185 so that I only have to use the H6 but get a cleaner hiss-free sound?
Is there some kind of XLR adapter/cable with built in power (battery) perhaps? There must be a way to boost the performance of the H6 noise floor.

Something like this, but not hacked :smiley:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io-JR3aUqII

 

[Med D]

I suspect anything along those lines -- cheap, fixed gain, in-line -- will have pre-amps that are about at the same level as the Zoom. So I would expect you would end up with similar performance to the Zoom alone. What exactly are you trying to correct for -- hiss? One thing to watch is your levels. Zoom suggests -12db but they are not that specific, suggesting the "sound should stay near -12dB". For sound that is somewhat controlled or especially rehearsed, that is too low in my opinion. Staying closer to 0dB will help with SNR.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

The hiss is super high during recording, even at low levels. Plugging the mic into my MixPre-D and output to the H6 gives almost complete silence, super clean sound without any hiss whatsoever.

If I'm recording ambience sound like out in nature or people in a distant etc. I cannot have that high level of hiss that the built in preamp of the H6 has. But I really want just something smaller to give phantom power and preamp the mic so that the input level from the mic is higher when going into the H6, that way the input level on the H6 can be used but with half the level of hiss-noise compared to just directly into the H6 with it's own phantom power.

 

[Doug Beatty]

There is no magic filter for crummy pre-amps. It's kinda like asking if there is a magic LUT to correct noisy, underexposed images.

You are on the right track by using SD pre's on the mic and recording out to the Zoom. My suggestion is to just roll with that set up and pick up one of these to house everything. Add a 1/8 return out of the Zoom back into the Mix Pre and all you have to do is set levels on the Mix Pre and hit record on the Zoom.

If you want quality pres built into your recorder on the relatively cheap, then keep an eye out for a used 702t and that will give you what you are looking for and more.

 

[Med D]

I also have a Zoom, but it is the H5. I use it when there is not a dedicated sound guy. I'm planning to upgrade to a Pix-LR though, along with a Pix-E7 when it ships. That combo adds a ton of capability for not much added weight.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

There is no magic filter for crummy pre-amps. It's kinda like asking if there is a magic LUT to correct noisy, underexposed images.

You are on the right track by using SD pre's on the mic and recording out to the Zoom. My suggestion is to just roll with that set up and pick up one of these to house everything. Add a 1/8 return out of the Zoom back into the Mix Pre and all you have to do is set levels on the Mix Pre and hit record on the Zoom.

If you want quality pres built into your recorder on the relatively cheap, then keep an eye out for a used 702t and that will give you what you are looking for and more.

Seems that it's the only good option. Though the problem I have with the SD mixpre-D is that the battery life on it is useless and I haven't been able to get rechargeable AA:s that seem to work with it (it's like it won't even start with some of them). It would be extremely expensive to use regular batteries, four in the H6 and 2 two in the MixPre-D going through like 8-10 batteries each day of shooting (H6 is 20 hours with 4 batteries, the MixPre-D is like a couple of hours with 2 batteries).

Is there any way to improve the performance of battery time or any rechargeable alternatives out there that really works?

 

[ericyoung]

http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/5168-best-battery-to-power-my-sound-devices-552/

THe BDS/NP-1 system is probably way overkill for you, but the thread suggests 2500mAh Energizer rechargeables should work.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/5168-best-battery-to-power-my-sound-devices-552/

THe BDS/NP-1 system is probably way overkill for you, but the thread suggests 2500mAh Energizer rechargeables should work.

I tried to find those batteries here in Sweden but haven't had any luck. What's the required mAh and voltage to be able to have sustainable battaries for long time work? I mean, the MixPre-D is really freakin bad when it comes to battery time. To this day I've only used it as an external soundcard/mixer with a power cord, because it seems that it drains the batteries by half after just a couple of minutes of use (48Khz/24bit).

 

[Med D]

I suspect it is the 48V phantom power that is killing your batteries. That is a lot to ask of those batteries and the circuit is probably not very efficient.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I suspect it is the 48V phantom power that is killing your batteries. That is a lot to ask of those batteries and the circuit is probably not very efficient.

The MixPre-D's built quality is top notch, it's just the battery time that's a problem. The whole point of using the MixPre-D IS it's phantom power, low noise preamp. It's a real field mixer, but without the ability to record.

Isn't there any rechargeable Li-Ion batteries as AA 1.5 volt? Should have a tremendous usage time if it exists.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Found these batteries online. Anyone with experience or knows of any other brand similar to this? The MixPre-D isn't really working well on 1.2 Volt batteries so there aren't many rechargebale options. How about higher voltage? Do I damage the device if I put in 3,5 Volts? There are rechargeables in AA format that use 3,5 volt as Lithium-Ion batteries.

These are perfect for AA replacements, but the website feels tacky and I'm not sure where I can find these in stores.
http://www.unbatteries.com/product/show.php?uid=1

 

[Med D]

I don't mean the phantom circuit is a poor design, I mean that getting a clean 48V out of two AA batteries is not that easy or efficient. That is probably what is burning the batteries up so rapidly. Pre-amps use very little power by themselves.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I don't mean the phantom circuit is a poor design, I mean that getting a clean 48V out of two AA batteries is not that easy or efficient. That is probably what is burning the batteries up so rapidly. Pre-amps use very little power by themselves.

That's why I'm after powerful rechargeable AA:s so that I could have a bunch of them with me and recharge when needed instead of paying for disposables after just one day.

 

[Nick Fury]

The hiss is super high during recording, even at low levels. Plugging the mic into my MixPre-D and output to the H6 gives almost complete silence, super clean sound without any hiss whatsoever.

If I'm recording ambience sound like out in nature or people in a distant etc. I cannot have that high level of hiss that the built in preamp of the H6 has. But I really want just something smaller to give phantom power and preamp the mic so that the input level from the mic is higher when going into the H6, that way the input level on the H6 can be used but with half the level of hiss-noise compared to just directly into the H6 with it's own phantom power.

I am sure you know this, but isotope 4 Advanced can work wonders, in very rapid fashion, if you have to fix that recorded track(s). Handy set of tools that is.

Thank you very much

Fury

 

[ericyoung]

Found these batteries online. Anyone with experience or knows of any other brand similar to this? The MixPre-D isn't really working well on 1.2 Volt batteries so there aren't many rechargebale options. How about higher voltage? Do I damage the device if I put in 3,5 Volts? There are rechargeables in AA format that use 3,5 volt as Lithium-Ion batteries.

These are perfect for AA replacements, but the website feels tacky and I'm not sure where I can find these in stores.
http://www.unbatteries.com/product/show.php?uid=1

Those AAs look like they are internally stepped down to 1.5V which stays at 1.5V until they run out. This is good & bad as they will last longer, but the MixPre will give almost no warning of low batteries before the batteries need recharging.

Edit: Actually looks like they thought of that! Their PK5 model actually lowers the output voltage when down to 10% capacity to trigger wireless mic battery warnings.
http://www.unbatteries.com/qa/?&page=2

Edit: This thread doesn't seem impressed, and the LiPo tech might be a potential fire risk. They mention Sanyo 2700 AA rechargeables or Powerex 2700 mAH instead.
http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/19229-kentli-aa-lithium-rechargable-batteries/

 

[Adrien oneiga]

I've had the same 702 for 6 years and besides the bulk factor, couldn't be happier as it really stands out compared to the zooms in terms of S/N ratio. if you sold both your mixpre / h6 you might be able to get a 702 for a little extra, though if you need the 6 channels it may not be the best option.. but what i found, is that usually someone has a zoom, but so many times my 702 has proven to be a valuable asset.

as far as power goes, if you're gonna keep the mix pre, perhaps you could use a d-tap solution, but i also picked up the kessler magnalink battery, and motion nine has a really compact power distributor that is 12v in, and has 3 outputs (12v, 7.4v, 5v USB) which might come really handly for powering multiple gadgets in one bag...

 

[Christoffer Glans]

I've had the same 702 for 6 years and besides the bulk factor, couldn't be happier as it really stands out compared to the zooms in terms of S/N ratio. if you sold both your mixpre / h6 you might be able to get a 702 for a little extra, though if you need the 6 channels it may not be the best option.. but what i found, is that usually someone has a zoom, but so many times my 702 has proven to be a valuable asset.

as far as power goes, if you're gonna keep the mix pre, perhaps you could use a d-tap solution, but i also picked up the kessler magnalink battery, and motion nine has a really compact power distributor that is 12v in, and has 3 outputs (12v, 7.4v, 5v USB) which might come really handly for powering multiple gadgets in one bag...

I find it strange though that there aren't any cables or small battery preamps (like 9 volts) which could be attatched to the mic. I mean, if I had a small preamp put to full volume, it wouldn't take much volume from the H6 to get a perfectly clean sound.
The thing is primarily that I want to be able to record ambience sound, very subtle sound. I really want to use the built in mic's (the removable front mics of the H6), because the stereo recordings of ambience sound is splendid as backdrops for sound design, but the noise floor is most of the time too high.

Why couldn't Zoom release a high quality stereo condeser front with it's own battery power for a completely clean preamp? I would pay for that, it would be the perfect recording device for the assembly of subtle sound when doing sound design.

 

[Bob Moore]

I find it strange though that there aren't any cables or small battery preamps (like 9 volts) which could be attatched to the mic. I mean, if I had a small preamp put to full volume, it wouldn't take much volume from the H6 to get a perfectly clean sound.
The thing is primarily that I want to be able to record ambience sound, very subtle sound. I really want to use the built in mic's (the removable front mics of the H6), because the stereo recordings of ambience sound is splendid as backdrops for sound design, but the noise floor is most of the time too high.

Why couldn't Zoom release a high quality stereo condeser front with it's own battery power for a completely clean preamp? I would pay for that, it would be the perfect recording device for the assembly of subtle sound when doing sound design.

Here is 48v outside the Mix PreD:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?N=10403002&InitialSearch=yes&sts=pi

Works well for single channel.

Two for stereo.

Bob

 

[Santos Ramos]

I'm using the zoom H6 too and I was bout to post a questions about the FetHead.
Not sure if the FetHead is a better option than the zoom H6.
Here is a video review of the Audio FetHead.

 

[Christoffer Glans]

Now that the Zoom F8 is out, should I sell my H6 and buy the F8 instead? Timecode and better noise floor.