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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Zoom H6 Available Today

Clayton Burkhart said:
The Tascam 60D is a non starter. It has incremental gain, meaning the sound is stepped if you have to raise or lower the levels with the pots while you are recording. The dumbest thing I have yet seen for a supposed new recorder.
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If used on camera, you have no business touching the rig to adjust during a take. (because it can screw with your camera shot)
Its not a complete deal killer for me, as you don't typically ride levels while operating a shoulder mount camera anyhow..Simple enough to adjust when non-critical sound happening in front of you...

If used with a mix pre or other front end off camera, you have no business touching the tascam's pots during a take. The point of a front end mixer is to let you mix away from the recorder.

However, if using this by itself, off camera, and cabling to camera, this is a problem.. hope Tascam changes it..
 
Mike Gifford said:
We took a lightweight Epic kit to Arizona last October to complete a documentary and I used a Mix-Pre into a Zoom H4N and into the Epic audio channels 1 and 2

The limiter on the Mix-Pre stopped the Zoom preamp from clipping (and the Epic)

What amazed me was how good the audio guide tracks on the R3Ds turned out - as yet we haven't needed to use the Zoom audio

There was a good clip on Youtube about setting up a SD-2 with a Zoom H4N which offers a good guide for limiting in the audio chain
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One of my sound guys says pretty much the same thing. He's noticed that the Epic/Scarlet audio boards are EXCELLENT. If you have an A-Box, and a Mix-Pre, the quality will usually be so good you may not need anything else. We've almost always used the audio off our R3Ds, and I can't even remember the last time we wan't back to the mixer's original WAV files...

However having the WAV files as a backup provides remarkable piece of mind, just in case...especially if they had a safety track built in (what I'm most interested in, for run-n-gun).
 
Christopher Mills said:
If used on camera, you have no business touching the rig to adjust during a take. (because it can screw with your camera shot)
.
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Oh, really? That's news me. I must have been doing it all wrong because generally it hasn't screwed up my frame at all. Thanks so much for enlightening me though. Now I know that I have "no business" doing that. I guess that justifies the stepped potentiometers.

On another note, now that ML has hacked the 5DMIII for raw output, there is no audio because it eats up processing power. So these low end to midrange solutions are even more important. I am seriously considering the Fostex DC-R302 for the decent pre-amps and the infrared automatic syncing. Granted this will never be a time slating/TC solution but it definitely makes one man band stuff easieer. Problem is the lack of xlr outs on that unit and the mixdown to two stereo tracks, even though it has 3 xlr's. It's really for mid side miking or a pure single lav/boom solution. The greatest asset for me with the H6 would be the ability to lav up several subjects and still be able to boom if needed with everyone getting their own dedicated track. My concern is that the pre-amps aren't good enough. The H4N just didn't cut it on that front and no one has been able to provide hard figures as to the noise floor and the dynamic range of the unit.

Personally, I think Sound Devices should make a 332 solution. (Mixer and recorder for 3 tracks). I would jump on that in a second for situations which fall through the cracks. If I need a serious mixing unit I just get a sound person with his own gear. In one man band mode though those units are too big and cumbersome. I mean once you pair the small-ish 302 with a bit bucket or something like a Fostex F2LE, you might as well just have a serious unit like a 552, because it ends up being the same size if not bigger. However, the number of times I need more than these small pocket recorders can offer either in terms of quality pre-amps or tracks is also a problem. Let's hope the H6 does address this hole in the market. But i have my doubts that a $400 consumer grade recorder is going to cut it...we will see.
 
Nothing justifies the stepped pots.. and yeah, you are doing it wrong if you are riding volume during a take while also operating the camera. It takes two different parts of your brain to evaluate picture and sound. And what are you using to adjust those pots anyhow, your prehensile tongue? You should have both hands on the camera at all times during a take.
Your work on one aspect of technical equipment operation will suffer as you concentrate on the other.

If you shot with shoulder mount cameras, how exactly did you ride audio levels during a shot then? the controls are inaccessible at that point.. so its not like this is something I just invented as a best practice.
 
Christopher Mills said:
Nothing justifies the stepped pots.. and yeah, you are doing it wrong if you are riding volume during a take while also operating the camera. It takes two different parts of your brain to evaluate picture and sound. And what are you using to adjust those pots anyhow, your prehensile tongue? You should have both hands on the camera at all times during a take.
Your work on one aspect of technical equipment operation will suffer as you concentrate on the other.

If you shot with shoulder mount cameras, how exactly did you ride audio levels during a shot then? the controls are inaccessible at that point.. so its not like this is something I just invented as a best practice.
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Boy, you sure have a lot of rules about how things are supposed to be done.

I don't need to have two hands on the rig. I often use a silly thing called a tripod.
for shoulder mount I can also go hands free if I need to. Or one handed if I want.
My level are piped back up into the camara image and I definitely use them when they start peaking into the red zone.
Further, when my headphones are decently calibrated to the setup, I can often hear where things are going before they become too much of a problem and back off the pots a little bit without ever even looking at the levels. It practically becomes second nature and a question of muscle memory on longer gigs. If you have ever worked run'n gun documentary you would know that this kind of setup and responsiveness is a necessity and can be a lifesaver.

You really must stop basing your assumptions on the idea that everyone works like you.
Telling other people what their "business" is (or "no business" in this case), is a prescription for rigidity and certainly doesn't engender amicable responses.

EDIT: Received a tremendously gracious note from Christopher on this. Really standup. Thanks Christopher!
 
Mike you mentioned a SD MixPre to H4N to Red input. I sort of understand that you use the H4N 1/4 input instead of the XLR to avoid the preamp on the H4N. My questions are, are you using the signal coming out the headphone jack? Is it stereo mic/line Y-cable split into L R signals and could you give us a link to the cable?
Thanks
 
Nick Morrison said:
One of my sound guys says pretty much the same thing. He's noticed that the Epic/Scarlet audio boards are EXCELLENT. If you have an A-Box, and a Mix-Pre, the quality will usually be so good you may not need anything else. We've almost always used the audio off our R3Ds, and I can't even remember the last time we wan't back to the mixer's original WAV files...

However having the WAV files as a backup provides remarkable piece of mind, just in case...especially if they had a safety track built in (what I'm most interested in, for run-n-gun).
Click to expand...

This is a relative observation. The Epic/Scarlet audio boards are very poor if used on their own. Only if the input gains are kept at the default or lower and fed a high level balanced mic signal via an external mixer are they properly usable as primary sound. Even then, turning up the gain on quiet or "silent" tracks on good audio monitors I'm sure you'll hear that they are not clean of interference or noise, but more usual level audio will allow enough s/n ratio for decent sound.
 
ericyoung said:
This is a relative observation. The Epic/Scarlet audio boards are very poor if used on their own. Only if the input gains are kept at the default or lower and fed a high level balanced mic signal via an external mixer are they properly usable as primary sound. Even then, turning up the gain on quiet or "silent" tracks on good audio monitors I'm sure you'll hear that they are not clean of interference or noise, but more usual level audio will allow enough s/n ratio for decent sound.
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Agreed.

If done the right way, and fed a proper signal, then the Epic/Scarlet on board audio is perfectly usable for broadcast. We've done it more than once, when in a rush.

Are the sound mixers WAVE files better? Yes.

But truth is we've been surprised at how good the on-board audio can be if done CORRECTLY. Our sound guy is very RED friendly, and has figured out a very efficient system for feeding us audio.
 
Got my h6 yesterday, just wondering if it's possible to record 2 channels with 1 mic. for example, i have my mic plugged in to xlr 1 but also want to record a backup on channel 2 with 12db less gain? is that possible?
 
splitting track, maybe

splitting track, maybe

I think you'll need a workaround for this device.. probably a "y' cable from your mic into both inputs.. then manually adjust the rotary encoder ..
Warning: this may induce a ground loop hum or other crosstalk.
I see no matrix assignment option in the controls on the device. As there are no direct outs, running an output cable into another channel probably won't work.... (well... maybe a stereo mini plug to mono xlr3 cable and hard panning the 1st channel would work....

If your mic is phantom powered, this is going to be tricky.. as the phantom power may induce noise as well.
please let us know how it goes
 
Thanks Chris for the reply, I've got a Y splitter but i had hoped for a better solution. I'll be using the 416 mic most of the time.
 
there is actually a back up record mode in the h6 i was messing around with. it will automatically make a duplicate track that is -12db. so one mic in, 2 tracks out. :)
 
Scott, did you see post 23. Looks like there is a feature built in to do what you want -

Savva Svet said:
B&H wrote up a pretty good review of the H6. Check it out

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/audio/hands-reviews/hands-review-zoom-h6-handy-handheld-recorder

"The backup-record feature, when enabled, provides a failsafe for your levels by creating duplicate tracks of the L/R inputs, but at 12dB lower than where you have your input gain set. Those lower-decibel tracks can save your recording from accidental clips."

I can find that being real handy on set.
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Terry Delahunt said:
Scott, did you see post 23. Looks like there is a feature built in to do what you want -
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Yeah thanks Terry, the manual says the backup only works for the built in mic not the xrl in's. i'll do a test though.
 
that backup record only works for the built in/ attached mic to the L/R channels. i'll have to go with a splitter.
 
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