Would you like/prefer/beg for more time to upgrade your Scarlet-D to Epic?

[Bill Stengel]

Since I can't seem to get a proper poll-thread to work, I figured a dialogue-based poll could work in the interim.

QUESTION: Do you want to upgrade to Epic Dragon, but can't do so by the June 30 deadline? What would be a reasonable extension of the deadline?

My response: Yes, absolutely. As soon as I can put together the $.
Extend to the end of the 3rd quarter of 2015? The end of 2015, for those of us who do some extra spending to bleed off cash at the end of the year (which I did last December, otherwise I'd have most of the $9500 for the upgrade?

For how long did they do M-X to Dragon upgrades to get as many M-X people on the Dragon system to eventually feed them into the Weapon system?
For how long did the M-X people know that the upgrades would be discontinued at the end of 6/30?
I realize that it may not make financial sense for RED to keep the upgrade line open for Scarlet-D, and that we're in the minority, but it is disheartening that we are getting passed over because we either a) couldn't afford the Epic to begin with, or b) didn't have immediate need for the feature set of the Epic but now see use/need for them in the not-to distant future.

Being left holding a $14k door stop doesn't sit too well with me.
I know that's a bit of an hyperbolic interpretation, but to set the trade-in value at $2500 toward a $35k camera seems a tough pill to swallow. If I could afford a $35k to begin with, I would have bought an Epic-D. There has to be a more reasonable middle ground than "Come up with $9500 in the next two months or be left in the dust."

 

[Patrick Grossien]

I won't beg, but I'd like that to be around for longer!
Maybe as a trade in ?

 

[Christopher-lee dos Santo]

I have had my scarlet dragon for just over 6 months. I love it, but would definitely like to move up to Epic. The camera is working for me, and it's paying itself off, so I can definitely see me being able to afford the upgrade, but by June 30th? I am not so sure. It is just too soon for most of us as we've put money into other gear or productions. 10 weeks is not a lot of time.

Short answer. I would definitely move up to Epic by the end of the year, but not by June 30th.

PLEASE keep the upgrade for a little longer.

 

[Maik Müller]

I wish this would last longer, but no begging here. It's actually a surprise to see this upgrade-path happening. RED never made promises to do that. I assume they saw the opportunity to use the still running upgrade-lines for this. Those lines will be closed in end of June and thats it. Understandable and well communicated.

RED could have dumped the whole idea, but instead they make it happen. It's a cool option and i'm thankful, even if the time-frame is too small for me.

Anything else, i think you have the wrong picture. I'm not feeling left behind. Scarlet-D is far away from being a doorstep or EOL. You can still shoot fantasic footage with this camera, you can still earn money... It shares the same top performing sensor with Weapon.

EPIC and Scarlet will stay as part of the Dragon family, Jarred said it a few times. Weapon is not yet going to replace EPIC and Scarlet. We have no idea about what happens after Weapon/CF and Weapon/MG. Maybe there will be more Weapon models before a new sensor is coming? Weapon/AL and a Scarlet-specced Weapon? I don't think we will only see bigger and pricier models like the rumoured F65-weapon and that 8k-sensor will not always stay exclusive to Weapon/CF forever...

And on the other hand it's even thinkable to put a next generation S35 sensor in todays Scarlet-D brains - remember it's the same sensor-tech in Weapon-6k and EPIC/Scarlet.

BTW, the trade-in value for your pre-NAB Dragon Scarlet is 5000 for the brain plus 5000 for accessories. A post-NAB Dragon Scarlet is still worth 2500 + 5000 in RED's eyes. That are 7500 at minimum.

The 35k go for a package with accessories included, it is not just the brain. That hopefully means the accessories-credit is appliable. And if i remember correctly, everyone who has paid the higher price for the Dragon-upgrade is getting the difference as additional accessories credit back.

 

[Abe Espinoza]

Yes.

 

[Abe Espinoza]

I wonder what the trade in value for our Scarlet D's will be in the future if they are indeed upgradeable to new sensors/tech and not EOL. $1,000? $500??? Just my speculation, but it worries me enough to not want to get stuck on this train.

 

[Bill Stengel]

I wish this would last longer, but no begging here. It's actually a surprise to see this upgrade-path happening. RED never made promises to do that. I assume they saw the opportunity to use the still running upgrade-lines for this. Those lines will be closed in end of June and thats it. Understandable and well communicated.

RED could have dumped the whole idea, but instead they make it happen. It's a cool option and i'm thankful, even if the time-frame is too small for me.

Anything else, i think you have the wrong picture. I'm not feeling left behind. Scarlet-D is far away from being a doorstep or EOL. You can still shoot fantasic footage with this camera, you can still earn money... It shares the same top performing sensor with Weapon.

EPIC and Scarlet will stay as part of the Dragon family, Jarred said it a few times. Weapon is not yet going to replace EPIC and Scarlet. We have no idea about what happens after Weapon/CF and Weapon/MG. Maybe there will be more Weapon models before a new sensor is coming? Weapon/AL and a Scarlet-specced Weapon? I don't think we will only see bigger and pricier models like the rumoured F65-weapon and that 8k-sensor will not always stay exclusive to Weapon/CF forever...

And on the other hand it's even thinkable to put a next generation S35 sensor in todays Scarlet-D brains - remember it's the same sensor-tech in Weapon-6k and EPIC/Scarlet.

BTW, the trade-in value for your pre-NAB Dragon Scarlet is 5000 for the brain plus 5000 for accessories. A post-NAB Dragon Scarlet is still worth 2500 + 5000 in RED's eyes. That are 7500 at minimum.

The 35k go for a package with accessories included, it is not just the brain. That hopefully means the accessories-credit is appliable. And if i remember correctly, everyone who has paid the higher price for the Dragon-upgrade is getting the difference as additional accessories credit back.

I agree, Maik. I was in a bit of a state yesterday, it was a bit of a roller coaster for me - learning the upgrade was happening (amazing!), then later learning of the timeframe (not amazing!). Bottom line, it's awesome and I'm going to make every effort to get mine upgraded by 30 June. I have enough work between now and then to make the jump, although this year was supposed to be a saving year and not a spending year...(don't tell my wife).

One thing to remember is that EPICs, SCARLETs, M-X, R1's...all make the same excellent images they have for years even after the announcement of Weapon. The introduction of Weapon hasn't diminished that one bit. What has happened since the Weapon announcement (for me, at least) is an overall desire to position one's self as best as possible given what the medium-term is looking like. For my needs, the EPIC DRAGON is a 5+ year camera. After I've dumped the $ to jump to EPIC, I won't have any outlay for camera gear for some time (aside from media and batteries and storage), which I'd consider a win. In the end, RED is giving me the opportunity to own my dream camera, which until yesterday I didn't think was possible given the upfront EOL status of SCARLET-D.

I did qualify that the doorstop analogy was rather hyperbolic, and even a bit sarcastic!

The math I found a bit confusing (as did others, evidently), so thanks for clarifying.

 

[Akin A]

More time would be nice.
For those who aren't afraid of credit card debt, a 0% APR (usually first 12-18 months) card is a good option. That's how I paid for my Scarlet Dragon with no interest.

I don't have a family to take care of and I pay for my gear with income outside of filmmaking, so maybe I'm in a different boat.

 

[Mark T Workman]

More time would be nice.
For those who aren't afraid of credit card debt, a 0% APR (usually first 12-18 months) card is a good option. That's how I paid for my Scarlet Dragon with no interest.

I don't have a family to take care of and I pay for my gear with income outside of filmmaking, so maybe I'm in a different boat.

Nope, pretty much same boat here too except I would NOT EVER advise credit card purchases unless you already have the funds!

That being said, totally agree that more time would be just excellent because I can't make up my mind just yet (My honey might kill me in my sleep too!) and I also pretty much love the set up I have with Scarlet #0123 MX and CS6 on my WIN 7 super computer at this point. BASICALLY, I STILL WANT TO BE THE LAST DRAGON! if only because I still have to work on learning FCP X etc.

However, I also have this pet peeve about spending money when I'm not making money and I am recently out of film technical work thanks to Deluxe buying up post houses (some of you) know where...

The advice I would give you Akin, would be to look at this Black Magic Pro Res Recorder for $500 odd. This is where RED mastering is headed, I think, in at least one very important work flow! I sure as hell don't want to be chasing speed and new super computer builds to run native files on mac, or pc again for that matter. Perhaps this will be the best new wave of future mastering techniques!

Good luck with your Dragon!

 

[Akin A]

Nope, pretty much same boat

(My honey might kill me in my sleep too!)

However, I also have this pet peeve about spending money when I'm not making money and I am recently out of film technical work

Mark, maybe you misread my post. I said I DON'T have a family to take care of and I make my $ outside of filmmaking to pay for my gear.

I would NOT EVER advise credit card purchases unless you already have the funds!

It's a risk, but I look at it as taking out a loan to start a business, except there is no interest if you pay it off during the 0% APR period.
Worked for me. I don't like debt, but it's an investment for a better life in the future.
I have a personal fitness training business too, so my $ comes in whether the camera makes me $ or not. That's why I said I might be in a different boat than most of you guys who make a living from your camera. I plan to do that eventually as I produce my own projects, but at the moment, I have the side hustle supporting me too.

 

[Mark T Workman]

Mark, maybe you misread my post. I said I DON'T have a family to take care of and I make my $ outside of filmmaking to pay for my gear.


It's a risk, but I look at it as taking out a loan to start a business, except there is no interest if you pay it off during the 0% APR period.
Worked for me. I don't like debt, but it's an investment for a better life in the future.
I have a personal fitness training business too, so my $ comes in whether the camera makes me $ or not. That's why I said I might be in a different boat than most of you guys who make a living from your camera. I plan to do that eventually as I produce my own projects, but at the moment, I have the side hustle supporting me too.

Dude, you seemed like you needed technical advice... That was the part you didn't quote. You seemed to have missed the message here...

 

[Ryan Lightbourn]

Don't these "deadlines" always get extended anyway?

 

[Mark T Workman]

Don't these "deadlines" always get extended anyway?

If RED needs to shut down their production line to make way for Weapon, we will all have to keep that in mind. I am thankful that I still have some time to consider this situation carefully and work with what I have for now because it works pretty well.

Although I love it, Scarlet MX has been nearly universally snubbed for many freelance gigs. I'm just not sure if I can justify further expenditures beyond Scarlet Dragon as I've been tailoring projects for these limited frame rates for some time...

On the other hand, I've already crossed the MX-Dragon upgrade rubicon and know my CS6 native file editing days are now numbered. An additional simo upgrade to Epic Dragon would be both elegant and quite useful to me as an artist! I'm hoping the process can be pulled off effectively but I've already put in for the Armor. I know a lot of people are angry about this new deadline but it is an opportunity for a better tool for those of us who can both justify it and afford it. I honestly thought the move was as close to "inspired genius" as anything i've seen in the film business some time!

Your question is a good one, Ryan! Given some of the other announcements we've now heard, I wouldn't count on an extension.

 

[Daniel Reed]

Don't these "deadlines" always get extended anyway?

The Word is pretty solid: the upgrade deal for SD to ED is over once June has passed.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

What about Scarlet-X to Epic-X? No word on that ending?

 

[Bill Stengel]

What about Scarlet-X to Epic-X? No word on that ending?

If you mean Mysterium-X sensored Scarlet and Epic, I'm pretty sure anything pertaining to M-X upgrades ends at the end of June as well. Although it isn't indicated as such on red.com.

 

[Daniel Reed]

What about Scarlet-X to Epic-X? No word on that ending?

For a firm answer, ask your red rep.

But from me, I have a hunch that if SD to ED upgrades are "over" on July 1st, then the S-MX to E-MX would end at the same time.
AKA I'm under the impression all DSMC upgrade options are gone once June is over. Granted RED has offered the upgrades for a couple years now.

I think Red is pretty serious about this and want to deliver Weapon on deadlines as advertised for the big production crowd.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

I've asked 2 Red reps and none of them can confirm or deny that Scarlet-X to Epic-X Upgrade Program will be over come June. They could only confirm what we all already know that Dragon upgrades are over June 2015.

I want to upgrade to an Epic-X body so badly but don't have the funds at the moment. I will later this year but hope this upgrade program hangs on a little bit longer...

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

If you mean Mysterium-X sensored Scarlet and Epic, I'm pretty sure anything pertaining to M-X upgrades ends at the end of June as well. Although it isn't indicated as such on red.com.

See my above reply...^^ Also noticed that Scarlet - Epic Dragon price went up $2,500

 

[Christopher-lee dos Santo]

See my above reply...^^ Also noticed that Scarlet - Epic Dragon price went up $2,500

You mean Scarlet mx - Scarlet Dragon / Epic Mx - Epic Dragon prices went up $2,500. The Scarlet Dragon to Epic Dragon is still $9,500.