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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Worthy competitor for the EPIC??

Jon Carr said:
It's good to see sony come out with more 4k cameras while RED is already at 5k and soon to be 6k.
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Not really fair to say given the F65 is an 8k sensor... This camera would be a Scarlet competitor, which is still a 4K camera if I'm not mistaken.
 
Jon Carr said:
It's good to see sony come out with more 4k cameras while RED is already at 5k and soon to be 6k.
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Well, Sony has a 4K brand. Projectors, monitors, TVs, cameras, editing hardware, etc. To them, 5K and above is of no use as a selling point until there are projectors and displays with greater resolution in a standardized format that fits with the rest of their products. RED is free to go in whatever direction they wish with resolution because they are not hampered by selling displays and production workflow infrastructure products like Sony is, so they are only tied down by the limits of their sensor tech and internal hardware.
 
Matt Ryan said:
I never signed one, and was never asked to...plus once they started RED bashing I thought F these guys haha.
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Not that I doubt your sincerity, but everyone has claimed that the new camera has them crapping their pants.

None of those specs excite me if that's the big reveal.
 
Tanner Field said:
Not really fair to say given the F65 is an 8k sensor... This camera would be a Scarlet competitor, which is still a 4K camera if I'm not mistaken.
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It's a little disingenuous to say the F65 has an 8k sensor because it doesn't have square pixels...it has an 8k x 2k sensor, so Dragon will beat it in resolution by a fair bit.
 
Gabe Conroy said:
It's a little disingenuous to say the F65 has an 8k sensor because it doesn't have square pixels...it has an 8k x 2k sensor, so Dragon will beat it in resolution by a fair bit.
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I don't know what "square pixels" have to do with anything, but there is no proof that Dragon or any other camera outresolves F65 on any 4K display, the only thing that matters.
 
Rehan K said:
I don't know what "square pixels" have to do with anything, but there is no proof that Dragon or any other camera outresolves F65 on any 4K display, the only thing that matters.
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Uh, did you read my post? It has 8k pixels horizontally, but only 2k pixels vertically...that means it only has 16MP, whereas Dragon will be around 18MP...6k horizontally and 3k vertically.

Certainly how the debayer process is done can affect how much resolution is resolved, but Sony's actually worse at this than Red...that's why Sony had to go for a weird 8k x 2k sensor in the first place instead of a straight forward square pixel sensor.
 
Gabe Conroy said:
Uh, did read my post? It has 8k pixels horizontally, but only 2k pixels vertically...that means it only has 16MP, .
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That's not true. F65 sensor has over 20 MP pixels, as I remember.

In any case, it's all irrelevant in real world anyway. You have to show that Dragon out-resolves F65 on 4K display. If you can't, all these extra pixels do nothing for you.
 
L. Langer said:
Well, Sony has a 4K brand. Projectors, monitors, TVs, cameras, editing hardware, etc. To them, 5K and above is of no use as a selling point until there are projectors and displays with greater resolution in a standardized format that fits with the rest of their products. RED is free to go in whatever direction they wish with resolution because they are not hampered by selling displays and production workflow infrastructure products like Sony is, so they are only tied down by the limits of their sensor tech and internal hardware.
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Well, without the 4K projectors, TVs and monitors, 4K is worthless. That also applies to anything above 4K.
 
Bayer CFA sensor tech performs best when oversampling. Starting with 5K, 6K or even Sony's 8K by 2K design is about creating a clean 4K image post debayer. K?

Nobody I know this side of IMAX is interested in pushing anything more than 4K through post, not RED, not Sony, not Canon, etc...

FWIW if anyone is straining the 4K "production workflow infrastructure" it's Sony's F65, not the Epic. It isn't just the number of sensor photosites but the bit depth, compression schemes and data loads that determine workflow demands.

Cheers - #19
 
Rehan, I'm pretty sure you're not going to argue that 4K is in the future? Are you? When it does go mainstream, folks that have been shooting 4K will have a clear advantage selling material. Try to sell SD resolution today.... good luck.

Rehan K said:
What's going to change soon? Displays and projectors higher than 4K? I don't think so.
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Bob Gundu said:
Rehan, I'm pretty sure you're not going to argue that 4K is in the future
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Are you even following the thread? Someone claimed RED can go much higher than 4K as they don't make make " 4K projectors, TVs and monitors" like Sony. My response to that was than anything higher than 4K would be worthless if there are no projectors, TVs and monitors for it.
 
Rehan K said:
Are you even following the thread? Someone claimed RED can go much higher than 4K as they don't make make " 4K projectors, TVs and monitors" like Sony. My response to that was than anything higher than 4K would be worthless if there are no projectors, TVs and monitors for it.
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By that logic you are implying I'm not taking advantage of shooting 4k today. The delivery format and resolution is irrelevant. With my photography Im not going to shoot with less resolution because it may be used for the web only. Also as a vfx person having more pixels is welcomed.
 
Rehan K said:
What's going to change soon? Displays and projectors higher than 4K? I don't think so.
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Rehan K said:
Are you even following the thread? Someone claimed RED can go much higher than 4K as they don't make make " 4K projectors, TVs and monitors" like Sony. My response to that was than anything higher than 4K would be worthless if there are no projectors, TVs and monitors for it.
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Well there are 8K displays out there in Loch Ness, but besides that oddity there are many reasons to have the ability to capture more than 4K. Especially when it comes to debayering.
 
Phil Holland said:
Well there are 8K displays out there in Loch Ness, but besides that oddity there are many reasons to have the ability to capture more than 4K. Especially when it comes to debayering.
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There is limit to how much oversampling is beneficial. More pixels also mean smaller pixels, less DR, and higher noise per pixel.
 
Which is precisely one of the reasons for Dragon being a larger sensor size in physical dimensions to maintain a larger physical pixel size to allow for greater DR and cleaner low light performance. If Dragon was trying to shove 6K in where MX 4K is at the moment, I don't thing that would be a good plan in terms of pixel size/design.
 
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