Woah.

[jordan levy]

1. The thread was deleted by Jarred who owes none of us a full accounting of anything. His forum / his rules.

2. TD more than likely has a defensible position by way of IP / Patents / Licensing with the core technology. It is their right to defend what is theirs. If they just are using their size and legal might to bully an upstart then that is another thing of course. My guess it that they have a solid case and that's why they were acquired by Vitec. Vaxis has had the opportunity to rebut TD claims of FCC compliance etc but has chosen not to.

3. The goal of capitalism / corporations is to have a monopoly. Patents help can help this fact. Terradek / Vitec has no exclusive on this approach

4. My guess is that Phil is not directly compensated as an RED employee, instead he gets well earned perks. This whole subject of Internet Influencers is worth a full discussion on another thread.

It's hard to feel sorry a Chinese company having difficulty accessing an American market. China has abused their obligations since becoming a full member of the WTO. Try to sell your product or service into China and see how that goes. Ha! Boeing had to give the Chinese government full blueprints to their factories, processes and build planes over there in order to fly passenger routes. "Teach us how to build aerospace vehicles or no fly in our country"

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2017-03/13/content_28536073.htm

Edit:
In China you don't just sell American products like airplanes into their market. You are forced into a "Joint Venture" so they can learn your craft then kick you to the curb once they can go it alone. In the case of Boeing - American is transferring a century of Aero Space IP, which can easily be re-purposed into military applications. Can't see anything wrong with that.

Yeah so, cry me a river Vaxis

100% Emil, thank you.

Zeb, we are saying we dont have facts, that's the whole point of questioning. get it?

1. i wasnt saying Jarred owed us anything, DID he do the deleting or make the decision to? he has not chimed in yet, unless Phil represents him, and his his company. I believe someone owed Travis an explanation at the time of deleting, instead of him having to make a new post asking what happened.
i also wasnt saying there was a conspiracy theory, most everything is pretty evident but it's all speculation, just like every answer you gave Zeb, all speculation and educated guesses, that seem somewhat biased as well.

2. exactly, perks make you an ambassador, which makes you an influencer employed by the company. you are not allowed to review a product without making that fully known.
my wife represents influencers and celebrities that become ambassadors to companies and they now legally have to make a public announcement of that partnership in order to promote, review or even comment on a product.

3. regarding china, two wrongs dont make a right. Teredek should of a took a high road and if vaxis is inferior, people will find out and not buy their product again, like those cheap wireless follow focuses, infact they have been good for competition in our industry, because once they see how bad they are, they come back to the standard. according to Vaxis rep, Teredek sold in china without being approved too.

really to me, this all came down to respect for travis's work, which was taken away from him with a few clicks of the mouse. though for some reason he is completely ok with it all now.

 

[emil_h]

Yeah, you both say I’m making assumptions. No shit. Let’s have your facts then. RU and Jarred owe us nothing and this Pollyanna world of complete transparency and infinite knowledge does not exist . . . anywhere.

LOL what?! Ummm none of use assumed shit, except you. I have a great idea! How about no one assume anything?

 

[Zeb B]

LOL what?! Ummm none of use assumed shit, except you. I have a great idea! How about no one assume anything?

Ok boyz here the facts:
1. TD has the political, legal and economic juice to shut down a GB on a competitive product.
2. TD is a product you are forced to use on large productions.
3. RU is a forum run by and for the exclusive benefit of its owner.
4. Transparency and fairness are fairytales only children believe.

[video]https://i.gifer.com/OVxX.gif[/video]

 

[jordan levy]

Ok boyz here the facts:
1. TD has the political, legal and economic juice to shut down a GB on a competitive product.
2. TD is a product you are forced to use on large productions.
3. RU is a forum run by and for the exclusive benefit of its owner.
4. Transparency and fairness are fairytales only children believe.

[video]https://i.gifer.com/OVxX.gif[/video]

and those facts have nothing to do with some of the open arguments and comments about common decency and respect, specifically to a customer, which was all i was talking about. i dont get who you are defending here?

 

[Zeb B]

and those facts have nothing to do with some of the open arguments and comments about common decency and respect, specifically to a customer, which was all i was talking about. i dont get who you are defending here?

Truth baby, defending truth ;-)

opinion: Mike from TD is a fool who I would never trust with anything. How he responded to Chris McKechnie's post above was pure garbage. “I still have your emails”. Much class there Mike. Omorosa would be proud.

 

[Phil Holland]

wow, this is pretty crazy and we definitely, as readers, dont know the half of what went here on im sure.

Lastly, Ive always wondered this, especially in these days of major influencers getting paid to promote or to review.
Phil, are you on the payroll at either RED or Teredek or somewhere else? it's just that you happen to say "we" a lot from an employee point of view. I have no problem if you are, it's just that you should have to disclose it if you are reviewing products. If you are not, and doing all this research and outreach from the goodness of your heart, then you are a hero my friend. If so, still amazing work! i think we should know though.

You are correct on the "half of it thing" for sure.

To the inquiry on me, no I am not. A long, long while back began a crazy ass journey where somehow I've attempted to balance helping this community as well as the general cinematography community as a whole and I have long term "relationships", mostly friendships really with all of these companies. If you want full disclosure, I have been a paid consultant on a few products designed by companies, but not either of these companies. Bare in mind that's mostly me going "I'd really like your product to be able to do this or I think you guys should aim more this direction" sort of consulting, then I run away and see if they take on those notes. I'm mostly doing that to help benefit us anyways there too.

In the case of Teradek and Vaxis I own and have purchased products from both of them. Their gear gets the job done. I've met all of the people involved here. I love seeing Cong He at Cinegear and I like seeing the Teradek peeps everywhere too. All are good people. And the second that Vaxis can get the Thor appropriately cleared for sale in the USA, or any future product, it's all gravy on a group buy. As noted by their previous group buys. Nobody tried closing the Storm GB for instance.

However, if a product is not legal for sale in the USA, as Julie from Vaxis has confirmed finally, and that's the very basic version, we can't support it here. I don't think you guys understand clearly that REDuser is owned by a company and can't be supporting the sale of any illegal gear, products, or whatever. You need to look harder at why those actions even took place, which is where this is the worst story. Though we deal with users from many regions, REDuser does indeed primarily service stateside users.

As for the Teradek Group Buy and everything surrounding what has transpired, read my post here for a perhaps too candid look at what has happened. If I haven't earned your trust by dealing with the calamity of all of this at 3am on a weeknight, then what the hell am I doing. Teradek is also in a damned if they do and damned if they don't position here and that group buy was planned for months and everything is "legit" in terms of the products being sold. Like I said in that post, as Group Buys become stickier to deal with, it's harder to keep them around. I truly can't tell you everything that has transpired, but for long time REDusers you've seen the good and bad from them for sure. We've also stopped a few people who literally were on payroll from a few companies creating them as that was discovered eventually.

And to Zeb's point, yep, we really could have a deep discussion about influencers for sure as I'm privy to much of the good and bad about that world. I'm on the side of if somebody even sends me something to test out, if it's crap gear, I well send it back and say cool. Better luck next time. Why the hell would I tarnish my reputation by promoting gear that's rubbish? Bare in mind I'm virtually and ambassador either officially or unofficially for Zeiss, Schneider, Tokina, and Sigma who are all competing companies, but they all make good products. Same could be said for RED in general, which is yet another reason why this community is important to me.

I enjoy the speculation of everything and the chatter, but to sum this up, and read this carefully:
- Vaxis has now admitted they can't legally sell the Thor here as of yet.

That's it. That's all that happened. There's a hell of a lot that transpired internally at both companies that led to this moment that nobody needs to have public knowledge of as it will negatively effect individuals mainly, some of whom don't even work at one of these companies likely due to this whole ordeal. And again, I do think Teradek was heavy handed with their approach and they have since apologized the best way the could as a company.

All this big guy vs little guy and conspiracy related nonsense has nothing to do what transpired here. The one thing you have benefitted from in this case is I do have "relationships"-enough with both companies to get an explanation from the horses mouth and a general deep knowledge and connection to much of this industry. Which is why I was able to get to the bottom of this within 48 hours.

And to Zeb spitting the conspiracy fire. The reason "TD is a product you are forced to use on large productions" mainly stems from wireless evils of the past where some transmission devices used here in the states initially were fairly unregulated and were literally actively harming your health and you can't have that when you have a crew of 300 or near your $,$$$,$$$ star. TD has no way to shutdown a GB of a competing product, i.e. checkout the Vaxis Group Buy for the Storm for example.... If RU was purely run to the benefit of it's owner, I'd kill all the competing camera chatter off, which you know, hey there's the BMPCC 4K discussion thread running wild. And as for transparency, this is it and about as clear and as real as it gets. And the fact your wrote that after the other company involved confirmed they were in the wrong freaks me out man.

I can take the knock on my bow here and there, but holy hell a few of you need to get some air.

In short, before you do this:

Ensure you have done this:

And hopefully doing a bit of this:

 

[Zeb B]

https://giphy.com/gifs/michelle-obama-abjAlwF1NfOXS

 

[emil_h]

You are correct on the "half of it thing" for sure.

To the inquiry on me, no I am not. A long, long while back began a crazy ass journey where somehow I've attempted to balance helping this community as well as the general cinematography community as a whole and I have long term "relationships", mostly friendships really with all of these companies. If you want full disclosure, I have been a paid consultant on a few products designed by companies, but not either of these companies. Bare in mind that's mostly me going "I'd really like your product to be able to do this or I think you guys should aim more this direction" sort of consulting, then I run away and see if they take on those notes. I'm mostly doing that to help benefit us anyways there too.

In the case of Teradek and Vaxis I own and have purchased products from both of them. Their gear gets the job done. I've met all of the people involved here. I love seeing Cong He at Cinegear and I like seeing the Teradek peeps everywhere too. All are good people. And the second that Vaxis can get the Thor appropriately cleared for sale in the USA, or any future product, it's all gravy on a group buy. As noted by their previous group buys. Nobody tried closing the Storm GB for instance.

However, if a product is not legal for sale in the USA, as Julie from Vaxis has confirmed finally, and that's the very basic version, we can't support it here. I don't think you guys understand clearly that REDuser is owned by a company and can't be supporting the sale of any illegal gear, products, or whatever. You need to look harder at why those actions even took place, which is where this is the worst story. Though we deal with users from many regions, REDuser does indeed primarily service stateside users.

As for the Teradek Group Buy and everything surrounding what has transpired, read my post here for a perhaps too candid look at what has happened. If I haven't earned your trust by dealing with the calamity of all of this at 3am on a weeknight, then what the hell am I doing. Teradek is also in a damned if they do and damned if they don't position here and that group buy was planned for months and everything is "legit" in terms of the products being sold. Like I said in that post, as Group Buys become stickier to deal with, it's harder to keep them around. I truly can't tell you everything that has transpired, but for long time REDusers you've seen the good and bad from them for sure. We've also stopped a few people who literally were on payroll from a few companies creating them as that was discovered eventually.

And to Zeb's point, yep, we really could have a deep discussion about influencers for sure as I'm privy to much of the good and bad about that world. I'm on the side of if somebody even sends me something to test out, if it's crap gear, I well send it back and say cool. Better luck next time. Why the hell would I tarnish my reputation by promoting gear that's rubbish? Bare in mind I'm virtually and ambassador either officially or unofficially for Zeiss, Schneider, Tokina, and Sigma who are all competing companies, but they all make good products. Same could be said for RED in general, which is yet another reason why this community is important to me.

I enjoy the speculation of everything and the chatter, but to sum this up, and read this carefully:
- Vaxis has now admitted they can't legally sell the Thor here as of yet.

That's it. That's all that happened. There's a hell of a lot that transpired internally at both companies that led to this moment that nobody needs to have public knowledge of as it will negatively effect individuals mainly, some of whom don't even work at one of these companies likely due to this whole ordeal. And again, I do think Teradek was heavy handed with their approach and they have since apologized the best way the could as a company.

All this big guy vs little guy and conspiracy related nonsense has nothing to do what transpired here. The one thing you have benefitted from in this case is I do have "relationships"-enough with both companies to get an explanation from the horses mouth and a general deep knowledge and connection to much of this industry. Which is why I was able to get to the bottom of this within 48 hours.

And to Zeb spitting the conspiracy fire. The reason "TD is a product you are forced to use on large productions" mainly stems from wireless evils of the past where some transmission devices used here in the states initially were fairly unregulated and were literally actively harming your health and you can't have that when you have a crew of 300 or near your $,$$$,$$$ star. TD has no way to shutdown a GB of a competing product, i.e. checkout the Vaxis Group Buy for the Storm for example.... If RU was purely run to the benefit of it's owner, I'd kill all the competing camera chatter off, which you know, hey there's the BMPCC 4K discussion thread running wild. And as for transparency, this is it and about as clear and as real as it gets. And the fact your wrote that after the other company involved confirmed they were in the wrong freaks me out man.

I can take the knock on my bow here and there, but holy hell a few of you need to get some air.

In short, before you do this:

Ensure you have done this:

And hopefully doing a bit of this:

Really appreciate you addressing all of this. Thanks Phil