Woah.

[Jacek Zakowicz]

It's sad to see what this industry has become. This is not what I signed up for 31 years ago. Really disheartening....

 

[Rich Miro]

why isn't anyone answering my questions?

I've contacted BANDH directly and according to them the VAXIS THOR 800 is legally sold in the US . According to BANDH they DO NOT list any product that is illegal to sell in this country.

THEREFORE, if it is legal to be sold in the us. I cannot understand why this groupbuy should be taken down regardless of pending accusations from a "competitor".

In the USA it's called innocent until proven guilty. According to REDUSER and Jarred and TEREDEK it is quite the opposite.

Now if it is founded that VAXIS has not broken any law or legal agreement and the accusations are unfounded and wrong, how will REDUSER , Jarred, TEREDEK reconcile their power move to take the GB down from the community?

Also, I mentioned that the ISSUE or ACCUSATION is a SOFTWARE /FIRMWARE issue. Which can be UPDATED to be COMPLIANT. This happens ALL THE TIME with hardware tech. The Hardware is sold prior to the software being fully compliant.

Is it illegal for VAXIS to engineer their own COMPLIANT firmware to work with the AMMIMON CHIP?

Again, if the product is already being publically sold in the us REGARDLESS if it is a "special order". The company has already met preconditions to be sold in the US. Therefore, this GB should not have been taken down.

 

[Rich Miro]

Again Chris, this product is illegal to sale in the USA based on every piece of information presented. There would not be any sales, nor could it be supported here. I agree Teradek could have handled it in a more polite fashion among our tightly knit industry, but they have done what they could and this is much bigger issue than this group buy.

not according to bandh bro.

 

[Daniel Stilling]

When corporations start to enforce laws in a way that it benefits themselves, instead of the consumers, then we have gone from a Democracy to a Corprocracy. It seems like we have arrived there...

 

[Michael Pelaez]

From what I understand, this is because of an exclusivity rights agreement with Amimon on the software in their chips. I’m guessing Teradek has the rights to the US market with that software. If that’s the case, legally they can’t sell it here, but it doesn’t look great on Twradek’s side going to a groupbuy of a form to shut it down when b&h sells it.

 

[Adam Brian Dada]

Well, there goes Teradek from my list of wireless video kits I've been eyeballing now that I have the budget to buy something.

Let's hope Vaxis gets this resolved -- I'd be happy to give them my money. I love competition, and I hate lawyers.

 

[Chris McKechnie]

Yea...Teradek has irked me from day 1. They have always tried to monopolize any way they could, and it's frustrating that the "little guys" are getting taken out.

And to Mike...I highly doubt you didn't know about the letter being drafted and sent without your knowledge. You probably brought it to everyone's attention and got the thread shut down to prevent "sales" as quickly as possible, not caring about anyone on this forum. I know Vaxis products have been raining in on your sales for quite some time now, and they've been building up even more steam with top-quality products at crazy affordable prices. Maybe you're trying to put an end to them permanently.

Or, maybe it's finally time to re-evaluate your own margins Mike...I mean, you try and create products that are supposed to help filmmakers, not make products that no one can afford because your company wants to make an extra buck. Seriously...the margins are ridiculous if you look at what Vaxis sells compared to what your offerings are.

IMO, running a company like you have recently will get you no where fast, but hey, who am I to judge and what do I know right??

Sorry for the rant...but the big players slaughtering the little guys has got to stop.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'm going to attempt to be the voice of reason here as many of you don't have a great deal of the information that's transpired in the last 72 hours, and personally I'm doing my best to research and get to the bottom of this without crapping on any company, individual, employee, or community member.

First. Everything that is transpiring related to this GB being closed is happening to protect you. Even to a degree the trigger happy C&D that Travis received, which Teradek apologize for. And to Chris, I can assure you Mike knew nothing over that until the day after. This happened late at night. So lets get that out of the way.

Much of this is literally happening in real-time and in some ways you are seeing a side of the industry that many don't think about, know about, or care about. All good.

Some things you need to know.

- We have strict wireless transmission regulations in the states for safety reasons mainly as well as security for that matter.
- Sometimes things are indeed more expensive for reasons that aren't as simple or transparent as you think.
- Contracts are a thing. A legal binding thing.
- There is such a thing as device related or regional exclusivity to source technologies.

In relationship to B&H, note the order is a "special order" and that alludes to some things. Additionally the only way to currently get a Vaxis Thor stateside is through one specific importer, which alludes to another thing. There's stuff going on internally at one company involved, that party is no longer part of the equation for some reason, and that is evolving. I have contacted B&H to get to the bottom of that as well as even that product existing on their site might be "weird".


I am in communication with all companies involved here. I own products from both Teradek and Vaxis and I'd say I'm close with both of them. Some of you are too quick to vilify either companies. Teradek has done their best to apologize for the fast legalized approach rather than communication first, but this likely could be racked up to a variety of things that larger companies deal with all the time. Also of interest, I am in contact now with Amimon to get a full 360 image of everything happening.

To the effort of a Group Buy popping out of this from Teradek, this is their motion to possibly help as it appears that the harder truth is the Vaxis Thor is not allowed to be sold properly in the USA as of now. As for all of the reasons to why, I can't answer all of those. But I do have answers, none of it is savory IMO. I put together a GB with Teradek back in June that never went live that would be related to this. In this case, it's the best effort Teradek can offer for those looking to purchase a wireless system legally for a decent deal. They are stuck between a rock and hard place. The hard place being, nothing is done and this washes away with a sour taste in our mouths for all involved.


I don't like being in the middle of this personally, but I do advise that you hold your opinions. The whole story isn't known and very likely will not be publicly known as it will really hurt one company involved rather deeply.


Brand favoritism and attraction to deals is one thing, but we are talking legal stuff here that is way outside the scale and scope of saving a buck here. Best to let the companies slug this out. Sadly we're in the storm of it.


Now to my personal opinion as I've been approached many times to produce Group Buys. The real person here who has been "used" IMO is Travis as he spent a bit of time on setting up a GB for something that couldn't be reality. It is important to look deeply into various companies providing gear for a GB as we live in the "sneaky kickstarter" age and in some cases worse things like this. I don't ever want to see another group buy go on for 2+ years and waiting for order fulfillment or class action lawsuits. We've had to stop certain people from even doing GBs in the past due to unsavory activity. That's not what the spirit of a Group Buy is and not what this community deserves.

Group Buys on REDUSER have been a contentious topic in the last couple of years due to various abuses. We have thought about eliminating them all together, yet that harms the community as a whole for the actions of the few, but certainly does protect from future atrocities.


On a good day, when things are done properly (and I mean on all fronts), a Group Buy should help the manufacturer get more of their product out there while passing the savings onto the participating members as certain tiers are met. Plain and simple.


This particular one is not plain and simple. Not even close.

We are doing our best here, but there's a lot of jumping to conclusions or ignoring the obvious that people are missing.

 

[Jacek Zakowicz]

I think that the US there are very well defined anti monopoly laws. I'm pretty sure some ambulance chaser could get some proof of conspiracy from this thread alone.....

 

[Zeb B]

I think that the US there are very well defined anti monopoly laws. I'm pretty sure some ambulance chaser could get some proof of conspiracy from this thread alone.....

Ha! I needed a laugh this morning. Comcast, Sinclair, ATT, The GOP. That’s almost as funny as “we didn’t know our lawyer was reading GB posts on RU then tracked the DP down to serve him a C&D” ;-)

In skimming through this it seems to be a licensing issue, which has nothing to do with the FCC. If the technology is already FCC approved and is so proprietary / specialized to allow a C&D letter to anyone who even gets close to offering a competitive product - then it is a business issue - not a public safety FCC deal. Market share goes to those with better lawyers. Just ask Apple

 

[Travis Wears]

I could illuminate some things that are being speculated on here but I hesitate to do so because nobody really wins if I do that. Flaming TD is not helpful and if the Thor 800+ is entirely FCC certified, licensed and legal it's up to Vaxis to get their own attorneys to counter TD's claims and provide the proper documentation. As of now, they seem unwilling to do that, so in this scenario, they lose.

Phil has been super helpful and kind during this process and we all know he does genuinely care about the community here. He wasn't the person that removed the Vaxis GB and is in real communication with all companies involved to get to the bottom of this. Thanks Phil.

EDIT: I'm conflicted about posting my thoughts on the TD group buy so I'll keep them to myself. I really would like to have good relationships with everyone in the biz and not get caught up in corporate warfare.

 

[Mike Gailing]

Yea...Teradek has irked me from day 1. They have always tried to monopolize any way they could, and it's frustrating that the "little guys" are getting taken out.

And to Mike...I highly doubt you didn't know about the letter being drafted and sent without your knowledge. You probably brought it to everyone's attention and got the thread shut down to prevent "sales" as quickly as possible, not caring about anyone on this forum. I know Vaxis products have been raining in on your sales for quite some time now, and they've been building up even more steam with top-quality products at crazy affordable prices. Maybe you're trying to put an end to them permanently.

Or, maybe it's finally time to re-evaluate your own margins Mike...I mean, you try and create products that are supposed to help filmmakers, not make products that no one can afford because your company wants to make an extra buck. Seriously...the margins are ridiculous if you look at what Vaxis sells compared to what your offerings are.

IMO, running a company like you have recently will get you no where fast, but hey, who am I to judge and what do I know right??

Sorry for the rant...but the big players slaughtering the little guys has got to stop.

Hey Chris,

The personal attack really isn't necessary. I don't run this company, just marketing so im not privy to everything going on in other departments. I think we should take this offline and hash it out in person. We met a long time ago (2012) at a Red User meetup in Orange County. I still have an email from you glowing about the original Bolt. If you're still in Orange County, i'd love for you to come to our HQ and talk it out with me and Greg Smokler (Paralinx) who I think you also know. We're just normal guys and we all started as the small company and grew the business over the years. Would be happy to show you the manufacturing and R&D facilities here and to give you an early peek at some upcoming products, if you're willing.

Hit me up: mike@teradek.com

 

[Travis Wears]

Also, Mike did send me a very genuine apology for the C&D and we worked it out. No hard feelings towards Mike and I was impressed by his ability to diffuse the situation. He's clearly a real pro. Thanks Mike!

I'm already over it and I suggest everyone else do the same. No reason for a witchhunt here. It's really up to Vaxis to make sure whatever products they release in the future are so above board that there's no question about their right to be sold here in the US.

 

[alexandre Chailan]

Its not for insert coin again in the game but for European users, as the groupbuy was worldwide, it was illegal to buy it ?

 

[Zeb B]

Seems a feel good outcome here is for TD to do a GB at or below the offering by Vaxis.

 

[RJ_Ortiz]

Seems a feel good outcome here is for TD to do a GB at or below the offering by Vaxis.

I really hope someone does. At the end of the day, I'm just an end user that needs a wireless video solution and would love to be in on a good deal. Looking forward to what Travis, Teradek, Phil, or Vaxis has in store to resolve this GB issue.

 

[David J. Buchanan]

Not to belabor the issue but if an individual or even a company had issues with another vendors product or had evidence that a product was being falsely advertised then this would be the best forum to bring it to light. But to eliminate a GB from the list without notifications? Now that's power.

Purely my two cents.

Matt

I was just thinking that same thing. Lust, Money and Power baby. The world runs on em.

 

[Phil Holland]

Seems a feel good outcome here is for TD to do a GB at or below the offering by Vaxis.

I really hope someone does. At the end of the day, I'm just an end user that needs a wireless video solution and would love to be in on a good deal. Looking forward to what Travis, Teradek, Phil, or Vaxis has in store to resolve this GB issue.

Working on final details. They are doing a couple very cool things here to "help" with the frustration. Standby.

Oddly the benefit out of all of this versus a GB that almost went live in June is a slightly better deal. And a better deal on kits.

 

[Abiodun Shote]

Working on final details. They are doing a couple very cool things here to "help" with the frustration. Standby.

Oddly the benefit out of all of this versus a GB that almost went live in June is a slightly better deal. And a better deal on kits.

Curious, since you have both (Vaxis and TD) are they compatible?

 

[emil_h]

Curious, since you have both (Vaxis and TD) are they compatible?

Nope.