Wireless Audio

[Daniel Kunz]

Hi,

I'm looking for a affordable solution for a Wireless Lavalier that goes into the SCARLET-X.

I've seen alot of Sennheiser G3 Wireless kits, but i am not sure this is the best for Video-Production.
It will be mostly used for 1-man jobs, Interviews when i can't set up a boom or when i have to be further away with my on-camera shotgun mic.
I would like to have the option to have the Lavalier mic wired directly to a H4N or to the camera.

What are your favourite wireless Lav's?
How do you connect them to the SCARLET? do you really need a special cable to go into the mini-Jack Audio-Input?

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Hi Daniel,

I use the Sennheiser G3 kit for interviews and run and gun small crews. Terrific gear - never had a problem. Get the proper mini to XLR cable for your Scarlet and then everything works with it. We also use a Sound Devices 302 mixer.

Tim Eaton

 

[Daniel Kunz]

Hey Tim,
so grateful for your answer! Do you know where to get a proper mini to XLR cable? Or should i use the H4N and plug in the Line Out to the unbal-mic in from the Scarlet? That way i have 48V Phantom Power to any mic i use.

 

[Phil Holland]

I'm using the same G3 kit for feature work. I'm using the Red XLR to 1/8" through a mixer.

 

[Daniel Kunz]

Thanks for your answer Phil! What mixer are you using?

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Hey Tim,
so grateful for your answer! Do you know where to get a proper mini to XLR cable? Or should i use the H4N and plug in the Line Out to the unbal-mic in from the Scarlet? That way i have 48V Phantom Power to any mic i use.

Don't know about the H4N, but Red now sells the proper cable: http://www.red.com/store/new-releases

 

[Mike P.]

With the H4n you'll have "better" 24bit/96KHz (I think RED is 16/48, right?) and it'd give you redundancy. Problem is it'd be an additional layer of batteries/gear to look after.

ALSO, I don't think any NLE's can actually use in-cam audio out of the box. You need to hack PPro with an unofficial patch to get it to recognize Scarlet's audio... This isn't plug-and-play. Actually, because you have no reference track, linking up in post might be even more of pain without timecode... Or am I missing something here? OH WAIT, you can link up in RCX, I believe... still, it's an additional layer of post that most don't consider.

 

[Anthony Vu]

Cinema Oxide also sells an XLR to 3.5mm audio cable. I personally haven't used it myself, but they claim it works.

http://www.cinemaoxide.com/audio-cable-epic.php

I also use the G3 and I have some old G2s that work as well in terms of wireless audio. What I like about them is that they are powered and last quite a while throughout the day. I never worry about having to use Phantom Power from an audio recording device. As you know Phantom Power really drains battery life on some audio devices.

 

[Scott Crawley]

Lectrosonics gear is top shelf but if you are looking for robust gear with a moderate price tag, try the high end Azden wireless kits with the diversity transmitter/receivers. I have operated a set for ten years (the old 400 series) and they have performed exceedingly well. I still use them.

 

[Scott C]

It's not a popular choice but Vegas can read it. One problem I've noticed with it though is it doesn't seem to read every bit of metadata from RCX so you won't necessarily get the grade you think you have with it.

With the H4n you'll have "better" 24bit/96KHz (I think RED is 16/48, right?) and it'd give you redundancy. Problem is it'd be an additional layer of batteries/gear to look after.

ALSO, I don't think any NLE's can actually use in-cam audio out of the box. You need to hack PPro with an unofficial patch to get it to recognize Scarlet's audio... This isn't plug-and-play. Actually, because you have no reference track, linking up in post might be even more of pain without timecode... Or am I missing something here? OH WAIT, you can link up in RCX, I believe... still, it's an additional layer of post that most don't consider.

 

[Daniel Kunz]

Thanks everyone for your replies, very informative!
I just found out today that the old Sennheiser ew100 HF still work, will try to use those.
I just can't believe how sound on RED's Scarlet/Epic can become more complicated than it is right now.

no balanced inputs
no phantom power
"special" stereo adapters required
no sound in Premiere
painful workflow for syncing up sound with video.
no sound recording in off-time framerates
no sound playback
monitoring very awkward due to latency lag...

I'm planning on doing some interviews with the Scarlet, but this puts me off a little.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

Thanks everyone for your replies, very informative!
I just found out today that the old Sennheiser ew100 HF still work, will try to use those.
I just can't believe how sound on RED's Scarlet/Epic can become more complicated than it is right now.

no balanced inputs
no phantom power
"special" stereo adapters required
no sound in Premiere
painful workflow for syncing up sound with video.
no sound recording in off-time framerates
no sound playback
monitoring very awkward due to latency lag...

I'm planning on doing some interviews with the Scarlet, but this puts me off a little.

Daniel,

I understand your concern, but not your surprise. All of this information is abundantly available, both on Red.com (did you not read a manual before buying), and Reduser. Did you not see any of this before purchasing a $15,000 camera?

I am happy you are part of the Red family, Daniel, but to be honest it puts me off a bit when new users expect the camera to behave like a Handycam. And when it doesn't, they are put off. It's a professional camera. Do I wish some additional features were enabled? Yes. But the extraordinary benefits of owning a camera capable of shooting The Hobbit far outweigh the things I hope to see enabled in the future.

As far as sound goes, if you want an on camera mic, buy the Red cable, and attach a self powered microphone, or better yet a portable mixer. Simple really. Easiest solution for post - buy a Red Rocket - but other solutions are readily available.

With respect,

Tim

 

[Scott Crawley]

Just remember that is is tailored for a cinema workflow and don't let that daunt you. The capabilities you are looking for will be more accessible in a month or so, apparently.

 

[Arnold F.]

What is the Production Mixer on the feature using?

I'm using the same G3 kit for feature work. I'm using the Red XLR to 1/8" through a mixer.

 

[Arnold F.]

I would say the best solution is to hire a Sound Mixer. It's been working well for 80 years and since camera guy are two, different full-time shooting jobs, it's difficult to do both.

Of course, I understand for one-mic interviews you wish to do it yourself. As a Production Mixer, I wouldn't hire a camera operator to shoot interviews - I would just do both parts myself.

I would suggest a Lectrosonics SRa system. It's scannable, has two channels, can be powered from many cameras or from a battery sled they sell, and can even be mounted on a hot shoe. You can then get one or two Lectro LMa's, which are cheaper than the full-powered TX's but are still great. I've used it for jobs when I didn't want to hire a camera operator.

Daniel,

I understand your concern, but not your surprise. All of this information is abundantly available, both on Red.com (did you not read a manual before buying), and Reduser. Did you not see any of this before purchasing a $15,000 camera?

I am happy you are part of the Red family, Daniel, but to be honest it puts me off a bit when new users expect the camera to behave like a Handycam. And when it doesn't, they are put off. It's a professional camera. Do I wish some additional features were enabled? Yes. But the extraordinary benefits of owning a camera capable of shooting The Hobbit far outweigh the things I hope to see enabled in the future.

As far as sound goes, if you want an on camera mic, buy the Red cable, and attach a self powered microphone, or better yet a portable mixer. Simple really. Easiest solution for post - buy a Red Rocket - but other solutions are readily available.

With respect,

Tim

 

[Doug Beatty]

Thanks everyone for your replies, very informative!
I just found out today that the old Sennheiser ew100 HF still work, will try to use those.
I just can't believe how sound on RED's Scarlet/Epic can become more complicated than it is right now.

no balanced inputs - not true; please read the manual
no phantom power - announced for future release
"special" stereo adapters required - built in XLR would have been nice, wouldn't it?
no sound in Premiere - agreed, but adobe works their asses off to keep up with Red SDK; it's coming
painful workflow for syncing up sound with video. - timecode is your friend
no sound recording in off-time framerates - you don't want it, trust me.
no sound playback - agreed, would love this
monitoring very awkward due to latency lag... - agreed

I'm planning on doing some interviews with the Scarlet, but this puts me off a little.

I agree with some of these points, but all this adds up to you choosing the wrong camera for your needs on this shoot. C300 is a great doco camera. Scarlet is more of a square peg in the ENG world. You can make it round with effort, though...

 

[Daniel Kunz]

to be honest it puts me off a bit when new users expect the camera to behave like a Handycam. And when it doesn't, they are put off. It's a professional camera.

Tim

It's quite the opposite. I don't expect much from a handycam. I expect ALOT from a professional 15000$ camera. Why is it that EVERY other professional camera company gets Audio right? I knew that audio wasn't fully finished when i ordered the Scarlet, but how long has it been? Epic was there even longer before. Nothing happened since. sad.

So your easiest solution for Audio post is buying a 4750$ card? i can buy 2 new computers for that price. or a FS100 with 2 working XLR inputs.

 

[Timothy Eaton]

It's quite the opposite. I don't expect much from a handycam. I expect ALOT from a professional 15000$ camera. Why is it that EVERY other professional camera company gets Audio right? I knew that audio wasn't fully finished when i ordered the Scarlet, but how long has it been? Epic was there even longer before. Nothing happened since. sad.

So your easiest solution for Audio post is buying a 4750$ card? i can buy 2 new computers for that price. or a FS100 with 2 working XLR inputs.

So the big complaint about Scarlet is that it doesn't have phantom power and balanced inputs. Wow. It's as simple as buying a couple of cables and a powered mic or mixer, but that doesn't seem like a good solution to you? Meanwhile you have a camera that shoots 4K RAW for $15K, which NO other professional camera company makes. Not even close. Right? I understand feature requests, but to say that you are put off by a camera that does what Scarlet does, when there is a perfectly good solution to your audio needs - I guess we're just on a different page.

FS-100 is an HD sensor recording to MPEG 4 - apples and oranges.

Premiere plays Scarlet files natively without a Rocket Card, so you don't need the card. There have been some issues with audio, but there is a simple workaround - search Reduser. The fault for the delay is Adobe's not Red's. CSS 6 should unveil at NAB next month offering many new features.

Here's a suggestion. Go shoot with the Scarlet using some of the suggestions offered in this thread for audio. Then post using RedCineX and/or Premiere. If you're not blown away by what you get, and are not willing to wait awhile on phantom power, balanced inputs, and software updates at NAB, then maybe there is another camera in your future. No hard feelings. Understood.

Tim

 

[Daniel Kunz]

So the big complaint about Scarlet is that it doesn't have phantom power and balanced inputs. Wow.

Tim

No, there is playback and monitoring that are quite important. I find it awkward to tell clients that we can't listen to the last take... say what??? It's 2012...
I am not talking about the amazing picture quality. It is really great, but it's only one side of the story. And i need both sides. VIDEO and AUDIO.

i agree that buying a few cables and a powered mic/mixer is a solution, but a solution to what? A problem that doesn't need to be there in the first place.
And if the idea of working with sound on the scarlet makes me want to use our FS100 instead isn't what RED intends i guess.

But hey... i will go through the hoops, i will look for solutions, i will work around these problems. just not with pleasure.

 

[Doug Beatty]

No, there is playback and monitoring that are quite important. I find it awkward to tell clients that we can't listen to the last take... say what??? It's 2012...
I am not talking about the amazing picture quality. It is really great, but it's only one side of the story. And i need both sides. VIDEO and AUDIO.

i agree that buying a few cables and a powered mic/mixer is a solution, but a solution to what? A problem that doesn't need to be there in the first place.
And if the idea of working with sound on the scarlet makes me want to use our FS100 instead isn't what RED intends i guess.

But hey... i will go through the hoops, i will look for solutions, i will work around these problems. just not with pleasure.

Sorry to hear that you don't geek out over camera tech like I do. I think you're getting a lot of ire from folks that have read the countless threads that offer simple work arounds for the features you are looking for. I actually enjoy figuring it out and sharing solutions with the community. People have been through the hoops and will tell you what buttons to push and what cables to buy to make the camera work like you want it to.

Scarlet is a cinema camera that just so happens to be small enough to be considered for run and gun documentary work. It was never advertised as an ENG camera, but can be made into one with a bit of thought and research. I think you'd really dig a C300 for this job, though.

If you want playback w/ audio for your client, hand him one of these and save your $5k red rocket rental because you already have your rushes recorded with sunk audio.