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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Why not make CCD a sensor / module option for the DSMC?

Julio Quintana said:
Just out of curiosity, what kind of media will we need to capture 5k @100fps. That sounds like an enormous amount of data.
Click to expand...

I've been wondering that myself. None of the existing media will be able to handle that, so I'm figuring it'll be the new SSD module/media that shoulders that job. That said, we haven't seen any solid info about the new SSD media.

End of hijack.

While I can't speak to shooting weddings and other situations with flashes, I've done more than a few whip-pans with my R1, and only a minor bit of skew as a result. If they've improved the rolling shutter as much as they claim, then it really should be a non-issue in the skew department. Interested to see how it works with flashes.
 
There is a difference between a mechanical rolling shutter and a digital rolling shutter even if the rotation speed is the same: The film shutter is not exactly in film plane but at a certain distance. As a consequence, the boundary defined by the mechanical shutter is blurry whereas the boundary defined by the electronic shutter is a sharp line.

However blurry rolling shutter artefacts are much less visible than sharp ones. This is another important reason why people do not perceive these artefacts on film although they are present.

The alternative cover up strategy is to have relatively long exposure times. This is what Canon did with the first version of the firmware of the 5D II: optimize to maximize to 1/33s shutter speed which makes it hard to impossible to perceive the artefacts, but it gives the image a "video like impression" (since it corresponds to a shutter angle of close to 360° which is technically impossible with film cameras.

However, the faster shutter of Mysterium-X can be covered up with correspondingly less motion blurr. My guess would therefore be that rolling shutter artefacts of Mysterium-X could show up in slow motion work with extremely short exposure times, e.g. when shooting at 100fps with exposure times like 1/1000s or below, but not in normal 24fps.
 
Steven Caesare said:
Why single that one out?
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I would have thought fairly obvious, R1 never made 60 @ 4K so to talk about 100 fps @ 5K as an option today would seem worthy of a comment. I need those specs for a shoot next week.
Care to guess if those specs will be met on day one or will Epic improve with age like R1?
 
Stephen Williams said:
I would have thought fairly obvious, R1 never made 60 @ 4K so to talk about 100 fps @ 5K as an option today would seem worthy of a comment.
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The difference though is that 60fps 4K from the RED ONE was only ever announced as being delivered out the RAW port uncompressed (if I remember correctly). They've said the hardware on the EPIC should be able to handle redcode at this resolution and frame rate, so it's a lot more likely that we get it.
 
5K at 100fps is REDCODE and will be delivered. I'm not exactly sure what the frame rates will be on Tattoo yet, but something good.

Jim
 
Stephen Gentle said:
The difference though is that 60fps 4K from the RED ONE was only ever announced as being delivered out the RAW port uncompressed (if I remember correctly). They've said the hardware on the EPIC should be able to handle redcode at this resolution and frame rate, so it's a lot more likely that we get it.
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Hi Stephen,

Redcode was not announced, only the specs, no mention of how it would be achieved, some were sceptical and asked questions.

Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
Hi Stephen,

Redcode was not announced, only the specs, no mention of how it would be achieved, some were sceptical and asked questions.

Stephen
Click to expand...

4K at 60fps was announced as available out the RAW port. After we announced and delivered REDCODE to the CF reader... we did not receive one order for the RAW port.

Jim
 
Jannard said:
4K at 60fps was announced as available out the RAW port. After we announced and delivered REDCODE to the CF reader... we did not receive one order for the RAW port.

Jim
Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

I remember you telling people not to order the RAW port as nobody could tell the difference between RAW & REDCODE. I was a little surprised by those statements as the first version of REDCODE had very obvious issues. I seem to remember somebody on CML did order a RAW port, however it was discontinued as a product. Looks like OVF will die the same death, however there is currently no way to order one.

Best Stephen
 
Stephen Williams said:
I seem to remember somebody on CML did order a RAW port, however it was discontinued as a product. Looks like OVF will die the same death, however there is currently no way to order one.
Click to expand...

For the RAW port they needed a certain amount of orders to make it feasible. One order from someone on CML wouldn't have done it.

For the OVF I think they need 25 orders... and they aren't yet taking orders for any of the DSMC line...
 
Stephen Williams said:
I would have thought fairly obvious, R1 never made 60 @ 4K so to talk about 100 fps @ 5K as an option today would seem worthy of a comment. I need those specs for a shoot next week.
Care to guess if those specs will be met on day one or will Epic improve with age like R1?
Click to expand...

Epic was announced with that capability.

In this thread Jim stated that capability again.

So until we know otherwise, nothing has changed. When it does, Red has been pretty up front about stating such.

So no, it's not obvious why you asked Jim if you had missed something when he re-stated what has already been stated.

-sc
 
Mysterium

Mysterium

Stephen Williams said:
... R1 never made 60 @ 4K so to talk about 100 fps @ 5K as an option today would seem worthy of a comment.
I need those specs for a shoot next week...
Click to expand...

I am afraid your underlying premise is flawed Stephen.

The Mysterium sensor delivers 4480 x 2520 at up to 60 fps in a RED ONE.

As has been explained several times, the recorded frame size / frame rate limitation is in the camera's REDCODE compression hardware.


What will you shoot on in the mean time?
 
Stuart English said:
I am afraid your underlying premise is flawed Stephen.

The Mysterium sensor delivers 4480 x 2520 at up to 60 fps in a RED ONE.

As has been explained several times, the recorded frame size / frame rate limitation is in the camera's REDCODE compression hardware.


What will you shoot on in the mean time?
Click to expand...

Hi Stuart,

Very pleased to hear the Mysterium can indeed deliver 4k @ 60p as promissed, with all due respect it's that sort of hype that puts many people off using RED.

1944 35mm Mitchell.

Best,

Stepen
 
Stuart English said:
What's missing in your thought experiment is because the shutter is moving, parts of the film frame see light at different times.
.
Click to expand...

with a 180 degree shutter the frame is completely open in the middle of the exposure, so what you are saying is not wholly accurate.
 
Stephen Williams said:
with a 180 degree shutter the frame is completely open in the middle of the exposure, so what you are saying is not wholly accurate.
Click to expand...

The travel of the mirror shutter is not instantaneous, therefore although each part of the film frame is exposed for the same amount of time, the start (and therefore end) point in time for each individual area of the film is indeed different.

Graeme
 
Mysterium

Mysterium

Very pleased to hear the Mysterium can indeed deliver 4k @ 60p as promissed, with all due respect it's that sort of hype that puts many people off using RED.
Click to expand...

If it is true, then how is it hype?
 
Shutter

Shutter

with a 180 degree shutter the frame is completely open in the middle of the exposure, so what you are saying is not wholly accurate.
Click to expand...

With due respect yes it is, because you also need to consider what happens at the other moments in time.

i.e. as the shutter travels, some parts of the frame are being exposed and some are not.
 
Steven Caesare said:
Epic was announced with that capability.

In this thread Jim stated that capability again.

So until we know otherwise, nothing has changed. When it does, Red has been pretty up front about stating such.

So no, it's not obvious why you asked Jim if you had missed something when he re-stated what has already been stated.

-sc
Click to expand...

Hi,

Jim wrote "you can shoot 5K @ 100fps" today that is impossible, had he written 'you will be able to......'
There was talk of Epic's being delivered early 2010, so asking if I had missed anything seems reasonable. I shoots 100 fps & more on 35mm film several times a month, knowing what options exist today is important.

Stephen
 
Stuart English said:
i.e. as the shutter travels, some parts of the frame are being exposed and some are not.
Click to expand...

A small proportion of the total exposure for that part of the frame with a 180 degree shutter. A 22.5 degree shutter will expose only part of the film at a time. There is a reason why the rolling shutter of a RED one does not look the same as film, bear in mind recent cameras have the shutter centre below the aperture whilst many older cameras had the shutter center to one side. Cameras that have the mirror to the side don't convert well for S35.
 
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