why 48fps and not 50fps?

[Suresh Kara]

can not seem to find an answer as to why this is, does any one know?

those 2 frames would really help out the pal producers


6K FF: 12 FPS (in Burst mode)
5K FF: 48 FPS - WHY?
4K FF: 60 FPS
3K FF: 80 FPS
2K FF: 120 FPS

5K 2.4:1: 60 FPS
4K 2.4:1: 75 FPS
3K 2.4:1: 100 FPS
2K 2.4:1: 150 FPS

 

[Phil Holland]

48 frames per second is two times faster than 24 frames per second, which is a relevant concept and also important for productions that shoot 48 fps in general.

They might be able to squeeze a bit more out down the line, but that's what Scarlet Dragon can do today.

 

[Gunleik Groven]

And (playing the devils advocate) 50/25 is a very understandable question from the whole non-US world, really. And what I would guess kept a lot of europeans away from scarlet.

 

[Suresh Kara]

thanks phil,

i get that but why?

its an international camera and we shoot 25p

it was never added to the MX scarlet in 3k

if they can put a man on the moon RED can add 2 more frames to scarlet camera's

 

[Suresh Kara]

i get thats what it does today, but why?

is it hardware, software or money making reasons?

 

[Phil Holland]

i get thats what it does today, but why?

is it hardware, software or money making reasons?

If there's a way to squeeze more out of it Red will find a way (which they've shown in the past in regards to the numerous advancements in firmware), but Scarlet is a different beast than Epic in terms of horse power.

I certainly understand the concerns of the PAL world, but you can achieve what you are looking for currently in 4K. In the future, who knows exactly. As things get developed, worked on, improved Red seems to be very good and implementing things if they are possible. As of this moment it's what it is though.

 

[Suresh Kara]

I don't think you are going to be able to answer this question Phil, unless you know and can't say

i get that the epic has more power than a scarlet but i'm talking about 2 frames, is that really difficult, honestly i don't know it might be.

I'm sure red is doing the best they can so they should be able to explain Why no 50 shouldn't they?

 

[Zach Love]

Playing devil's advocate... can you just use 48fps instead of 50fps for PAL work?

You'd have the same pull down scheme as 24fps to 25fps, plus it seems like a lot of people want 60p or 50p so they can do slow motion. If you conform 48fps down to 25fps you'll get a playback speed of 52.08333% which is really, pretty close to 50% speed, so I'm guessing would be good enough for a lot of slow-mo needs.

 

[Suresh Kara]

good point and to be fair its not been a problem on most jobs,

have had two music video's recently where the director wanted to shoot the track at double speed and slow down in post for effect. The 48fps caused sync issues so we dropped down to 2k which looked shit.

"pretty close" isn't really good enough on professional projects, or is it?

extra 2 frames for pal countries would fix that and also allow for HDRX in 3k

 

[David Mullen ASC]

So the Scarlet can do 4K FF at 60 fps but it can't do 50 fps? And it can do 5K 2.4:1 at 60 fps but it can't do 50 fps?

 

[Peter Strietmann]

So the Scarlet can do 4K FF at 60 fps but it can't do 50 fps? And it can do 5K 2.4:1 at 60 fps but it can't do 50 fps?

I'm no mathematician but it would stand to reason that in either case 50 fps would be less data than 60fps.

 

[TheBied]

So the Scarlet can do 4K FF at 60 fps but it can't do 50 fps? And it can do 5K 2.4:1 at 60 fps but it can't do 50 fps?

I'll fill in some of the gaps from the format / frame rate list from the start of the thread...

The following formats / max frame rates are supported on Scarlet Dragon:
5K FF @ 48 FPS
5K 2:1 @ 51 FPS
5K 2.4:1 @ 60 FPS
4K FF @ 60 FPS

 

[David Mullen ASC]

Why 51 fps instead of 50 fps?

 

[Björn Benckert]

Why 51 fps instead of 50 fps?

It's up to 51 fps, so at that given resolution you should be able to shoot 50fps.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I am under the assumption that the frame rates noted are maximums which would allow one to choose whatever lower frame rate they desired.

Either I'm having a brain fart or David is… (yes, I know where the smart money is on that ;-), but I might be right anyway ;-D

Cheers - #19

 

[TheBied]

It's up to 51 fps, so at that given resolution you should be able to shoot 50fps.

Correct.

50 FPS is also available, but we allow the max rate even if it doesn't line up with a standard frame rate.

 

[David Mullen ASC]

So if 50 fps is available.... What is the point of this thread?

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Kind of amazed at the poll results at the moment: 1) software, 1) hardware, 5) protecting Epic market share - and I thought I was a conspiracy theorist ;-)

I suppose it could be a big fib, but the explanation proffered by RED was that the Scarlet used chips/boards whose performance metrics were too low for Epic's frame/compression rate standards. I find this plausible so I voted: hardware limitation. If you voted "protect Epic sales" do you have any theory beyond general mistrust?

Cheers - #19

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

So if 50 fps is available.... What is the point of this thread?

Just a desire to shoot 5K FF on Scarlet at 50fps for PAL deliverables rather than windowing down or using an Epic AFAIK.

Cheers - #19

 

[David Mullen ASC]

The original poster said he had to go down to 2K to get to 50 fps on the Scarlet but if I understand correctly, he could have gone to 4K or 5K 2:1.